Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 06:16:08 -0800
Reply-To: "Alan J. Flint" <ajflint@ITSA.UCSF.EDU>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: "Alan J. Flint" <ajflint@ITSA.UCSF.EDU>
Subject: Re: Language Protocols
In-Reply-To: <388CD6F8.29826C27@hiwaay.net>
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On Mon, 24 Jan 2000, John Rodgers wrote:
> I perceive the need for establishing a language protocol for this list.
> I am, as are others, beginning to get e-mails in languages other than
> English, and while that may be fine in some arenas, I don't thing it to
> be appropriate here.
>
> At one time French was the international diplomatic language, and in
> modern history it has become English, and most specifically American
> English as opposed to the Kings English. The ICAO (International
> Commercial Aviation Organization) which is the governing body for all
> commercial airline operations world wide, adopted English as the
> official standard language of aviation for obvious reasons. A very
> dangerous situation would develop in the airways and on the airports if
> everyone were speaking different languages, especially in international
> flights. A veritable aviation Tower of Babel, so to speak.
>
> While it is not so critical here on this list, I feel it proper to set
> some standard, some protocol, for the language to be used. I like to
> hear from others who live in other countries or who speak a different
> tongue, but it creates problems for many of us. One thing, for me
> personally, I don't have time to track down a translator....person or
> web site...every time I want to read an email in a different language.
> As this list ages, it will be more and more affected by languages
> differences, so I feel it time now to establish the protocols. Once
> done, the information could be provided in the initial signup
> information.
>
> A true story.
>
> I moved to Bethel, Alaska back in 1970. There were thousands of Eskimos
> living in scattered villages along the coast of the Yukon-Kuskokwim
> River Delta, as well as up both riviers for some distance. When I first
> arrived, like many "Gussuks", as the Eskimo people called the
> non-natives in the area, I had thought " Hey, Eskimo country, this is
> really great!!" and I went my un-informed way. Well, as time passed, I
> made a lot of Eskimo friends, and learned a lot about languages.
> Villagers from up river villages could not understand those from vilages
> down river and vis-a-vis. Those on the coast couldn't understand those
> that lived up river. Those on the Yukon couldn't understand those on the
> Kuskokwim. Yet all spoke the same base language ....Yupik. The problem
> was that every village had a unique dialect and the further apart the
> villages were the greater the disparity between dialects, to the point
> that within a distance of 150 miles people had real dificulty in
> understanding each other. The solution came to be the common language of
> English. The missionaries from the early years of Alaska settlement
> introduced english,( how they did it is another story...to long for
> here) and it became the common base language. It allowed all Eskimo
> people to be able to speak between villages far distant, as well as in
> other parts of the state. Their own dialects kept the Eskimo people
> somewhat apart until they had a common language.
>
> Out in New Mexico there are many people that speak Spanish, with English
> as a 2nd language. There are those that speak English with Spanish as a
> second language. There are those that speak only English. There are
> probably some that simply don't speak English. But the English is common
> to most, so everybody gets by.
>
> Then there are the Spanish speakers that don't understand each other.
> Why? Well, there is American Hispanic Spanish, and there is Mexican
> National Spanish. Boy, does that ever confound things. I ran into that
> one one day in a hardware store when a customer( Hispanic lady - grew up
> in Espanola, NM north of Santa Fe) was speaking Spanish, and the Clerk
> ( he was from Mexico) was speaking Spanish and were having a really
> hard time communicating. Finally, in English, the lady said to the
> clerk, "I'm sorry but I really don't understand that kind of Spanish
> (Mexican), you need to speak in English or get someone else to help me.
>
> So I perceive some problems. To ensure language stability, and that
> definitions never change, we could of course, opt for Latin, which never
> changes, but that would be a bit much and it isn't a current language in
> daily use.
>
> So, what to do?
>
> We need to ensure commonality here. There are much larger language
> issues that are going to engulf us all eventually as the demographics of
> American culture changes, but that is much bigger than we ever could
> address here.
>
> For now, on this list, just some basic protocols appear to be in order.
>
> Just thoughts.
>
> I invite commentary! Flames!
>
> Flame proof overalls are on and zipped!
>
> John Rodgers
> "88GL Driver
>
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