Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 19:38:12 EST
Reply-To: RAlanen@AOL.COM
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: RAlanen@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Painting Van
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Wendy, and others interested Van painters. I've been involved with the
painting of automobiles since I was 15 and still do it from time to time if
the need arises or the pay is high enough. Anyways, I have some comments to
make on the subject of painting.
This is a complicated subject and that's why you get so many different
opinions and prices for what APPEARS to be the same job. It's very difficult
to compare one price with another unless you have a specific set of criteria
set out and you make sure the price quotation you get from the different
shops is for the same criteria. Subtle changes in materials, methods, and
workmanship can result in large differences in price.
Please note, all you gringos, that since I live up here in toony-land
that my price quotations are in good 'ol Canuk $s which are about 45% less to
you Americanos these days.
Paint...I will consider only automotive paints in this discussion so
those of you who insist on painting your van with some kind of enamel from
the local hardware be my guest but that's not what I'm discussing here.
There are many different qualities of automotive paints on the market and
there's where one of the biggest differences in cost come into play. At the
bottom of the scale are acrylic enamels such as Dupont's CENTARI around $100
~ $150 a gallon or 4/liters however their measuring this stuff these days.
Next are the poly urethanes and within the poly urethanes you will find a
whole range of qualities. The lower end stuff is not as durable as the high
end stuff so as durability goes up so does the price. Up near the high end
we have poly urethanes such as Dupont's IMRON at $200 ~ $300 a gallon, the
variance being somewhat due to the pigment used with red pigments being the
most expensive. And, it WILL take an entire gallon to paint your van
properly. Then there's the base coat-clear coat system. This is basically a
base coat of colour paint usually a lacquer based paint which is then
top-coated by a clear coat of one of the acrylic enamel or polyurethane types
of paint. Typically it take a liter of laquer at around $25 ~ $30 and a
gallon or less of clear at above prices. All automotive paint companies have
comparable paints in all these categories but their price, mixing ratios,
application procedures, adaptability and preference by the painter varies
widely.
These paints must be mixed with reducers and hardeners. Reducers are
usually $20 to $30 a gallon. The hardeners range in price of $20 to $50 a
liter ! Granted the shop using these materials will not need all the
thinners or hardeners in the quantities they must buy for your particular
paint job but this is just to give you an idea of the effect on the price of
the paint job.
The other thing that must be noted is that some paint companies use one
type of reducer for their paints and primers and some use a specific reducer
for each type of paint and primer thereby requiring the shop to buy more
gallons of reducer that they may not use again. There are also a few
different grades of reducers with respect to speed of drying. The drying
time of the paint can be accelerated by using a speed dry reducer. This
technique MAY have a detrimental effect on the quality of the paint job ! So
speedy paint jobs are not always a sign a quality paint job. Good work take
time ! No way around this.
Primers, while we are on the subject, are another widely varying subject.
Some of the paints are system matched to specific primers and therefore
require the need to use a specific primer which may cost more than another.
Some paint shops are willing and able to sort through all these chemicals and
find the proper paint/primer combination that is best suited to your specific
job and their methods thereby giving you a lower cost paint job. Nonetheless
of good quality !
Now we have not touched on the subject of body work. Just imagine all
the labour that goes into preparing the vehicle for paint. Not withstanding
any needed body work, the paint supplies from above descriptions, sandpaper
at $0.75 ~ $1.00 a sheet and miscellaneous shop supplies such as cleaners,
rags, masking tape, masking material, etc, etc, etc, and you can see where
were going here.
As for rust primers and rust inhibitors there's another whole story.
Every painter has his own recipe. Some work some do not. Only time will
tell. A good written guarantee goes a long way in insuring that the painter
tries to do it right the first time. It has been my personal experience that
you will NEVER stop the rust from returning. You just delay its return and
some delays work better than others. Yes, you can CUT out the rusted metal
and replace it with new metal but that can be expensive and even that may not
be beneficial if the joint made by the body man is not made, prepped and
protected properly. Metal etching primer has been discussed before as a rust
preventive primer. My option of this is that it is for applying over NEW,
CLEAN metal surfaces to protect them from rusting AND to give the next coat
of whatever, usually primer, something GOOD to bond to rather than trying to
bond to the fresh metal surface which it doesn't like to do too well.
For rusted areas I have had success in firstly cleaning the area very
well and that means down in all the pits as well, navel jelly seems to do
this quite well. Then applying a coat of rust inhibitor of which there are
many to choose from. POR-15, epoxy primer, rust primer etc.,etc.,etc. I
seem to have had the best success with epoxy primer but it is expensive and
complicated to use since it is a two part system. Primer, reducer, and
hardener. Once mixed it will harden and become useless in about 1/2 hour to
1 hour. Therefore every time you need some you've got to mix a bit put it in
your spray gun and clean up the gun and other paraphernalia before the primer
scraps your tools. Because of this hassle I only tend to use it on large
jobs. I have used with success other types that are meant to be applied
right from the can or with some reduction with a basic lacquer thinner. I
think the real gimmick here is to get the rusted area covered with the rust
preventive primer, get it properly dry or set then topcoat it WELL with your
paint base primer and then do any minor body work or necessary sanding on top
of this surface, taking care to not break the film of rust preventive primer.
It's the seal of this film over the rusted area to good non rusted metal the
really helps to delay the reoccurrence of the rust in the area from returning
by excluding any penetration by air or moisture.
Now that I've rambled on for such along time and used up all this
bandwidth for some benefit to you volks I hope, let me say this in
closing..........I do not consider myself an expert in this field and the
technology is always changing and I in no way can keep on top of it. Do your
homework. Know what you want and what you want to achieve. Seek out a
reputable paint shop with LOTS of good references. AND, last but not least
there are no good, cheap paint jobs. If you want cheap go to Earl Shieb or
Maacco, don't ask what their doing and take your chances and be happy !
Cheers
Frank Condelli
'87 Westy & Lionel Trains
STEBRO/Vanagon Stainless Steel Exhaust Systems
Almonte, On
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