Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 14:47:30 -0800
Reply-To: BRENT CHRISTENSEN <bchristensen@INFOGENESIS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: BRENT CHRISTENSEN <bchristensen@INFOGENESIS.COM>
Subject: Re: lifter noise
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Nope, shouldn't be. Sounds to me like you probably have sticky lifters.
Try the ATF trick. One caveat, though - if your engine is worn, it can
increase blow-by (and reduce compression) because it will tend to remove
some of the varnish and carbon in bottom end of the cylinders and your rings
(at least the bottom ones). It all may be more effort than it is worth.
What grade of oil are you using? If you are using too light of an oil, that
can cause problems, too. (i.e. 10-30 is too light according to many here on
the list. I run Castrol 20w-50)
Do you have to pull the heads on a WB motor to get to the lifters? I would
imagine so, but if not (i.e. you have those telescopic push rod tubes) you
may be able to just squirt some sort of solvent into the lifters to help
free them up. Then change the oil a couple of times and see if that helps.
Keep in mind that when you hear lifter noise, it is an indication of
excessive clearance between the lifter and the push rod, which also means
that the valves are not opening as early and as far as they should be. This
will decrease performance (though maybe imperceptibly) and tend to increase
fouling and other combustion-related problems.
That being said, I have driven cars with mal-adjusted and clattering valves
for thousands of miles...
Brent Christensen
'89 GL Syncro Westy
Santa Barbara, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Rissman [mailto:rissman@winresources.com]
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2000 2:32 PM
To: 'BRENT CHRISTENSEN'; Mark Rissman
Cc: Vanagon List (E-mail)
Subject: RE: lifter noise
I am using genuine VW oil filter from the dealer. Are those a problem?
- Mark Rissman
83.5 Westy
-----Original Message-----
From: BRENT CHRISTENSEN [mailto:bchristensen@infogenesis.com]
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2000 1:10 PM
To: 'Mark Rissman'
Cc: Vanagon List (E-mail)
Subject: RE: lifter noise
If you are using the wrong oil filter, then you should worry about it, since
the period of time that your lifters are making all that noise, the engine
is likely running without proper oil pressure (and therefore lubrication to
critical areas). This can be deadly for areas like main bearings,
connecting rods, and cams.
If the problem is instead related to "sticky lifters" then it is not really
a big deal except the engine can run pretty crappy until the lifters "pump
up" and you get the correct valve clearance. (I used to notice this
particularly with Corvairs, which are pretty similar in design to the 1.9L
Vanagon motor AFAIK). They would barely run until the lifters stopped
clattering, then the idle would magically even out and purr like a kitten.
(Well, OK, like a kitten with four one-barrel carbs that were perpetually
out of sync...)
Brent Christensen
'89 GL Syncro Westy
Santa Barbara, CA
Former owner of '62 Corvair Monza "Spyder" turbo (150hp) and '65 Corvair
Corsair convertible (140hp) Both of them never left "project" status...
:-(
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Rissman [mailto:rissman@winresources.com]
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2000 12:35 PM
To: 'BRENT CHRISTENSEN'; 'vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM'
Subject: RE: lifter noise
Brent,
Do I care about those lifters being that way? The problem is only when I
start the car and don't drive it off for the day. (when moving in the
driveway)
- Mark Rissman
83.5 Westy
-----Original Message-----
From: BRENT CHRISTENSEN [mailto:bchristensen@infogenesis.com]
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2000 9:51 AM
To: 'Mark Rissman'; 'vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM'
Subject: RE: lifter noise
First of all, make sure you are using the right oil filter (Mahle or Mann
with anti-drain back valve).
That being said, I don't know about Vanagons, but this sounds like classic
"sticky lifter" syndrome caused by carbon/dirt/sludge that builds up in the
lifter valving.
The cheapest fix for this that I know of (and have used on older American
cars) is to drain the oil out of the engine and refill it with a blend of
fresh oil and ATF (believe it or not). The ATF is very high in detergents
and tends to help break up the sludge. You run it like this for a few hours
(I don't recommend sustained freeway driving, as the lubricating properties
of ATF are not the same as motor oil!). Just let it sit and idle for a
while until it gets good and hot. Then drain and repeat this process.
I have run about a 60% success rate using this method on the following cars
(as best as I can remember):
Corvairs (3)
'66 Plymouth Fury Wagon
Ford 2.3L Pinto
Jeep V-6
A couple of misc. Oldsmobiles and Buicks, and I think a Nash Metropolitan...
The other alternative is obviously to replace all the lifters. Not
expensive (usually) but a major PITA, since it involves about the same
amount of work as rebuilding the engine entirely.
Brent Christensen
'89 GL Syncro Westy
Santa Barbara, CA
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM]On Behalf
> Of Mark Rissman
> Sent: Monday, March 27, 2000 9:19 AM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: lifter noise
>
>
> I think I have a similar problem on my 83.5 water cooled. If
> I start the
> motor up without driving (moving in driveway), I get a noisy
> lifter. The
> only way I fix it is by taking it out on the freeway for 10 minutes.
>
> - Mark Rissman
> 83.5 Westy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Animal [mailto:terrapin@HALIFAX.COM]
> Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2000 9:15 AM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: lifter noise
>
>
> Due the purchase of a 78 scirocco to serve as my daily driver, I
> haven't been driving my 80 westy for about three weeks.
> I went out to fire it up the other day, one of my lifters
> wouldn't pump up.
> I let it run for awhile, but it still raised all manner of noise.
> I realize this has probably been covered somewhere in the past, but
> any quick suggestions on what I can do to get that puppy to pump back
> up would be greatly appreciated.
> On another front, while I have your attention, the ignition switch
> has gone out on my 85 vanagon and I can't for the life of me figure
> out how to get that fool thing out.
> For the moment it's just sitting, the key turns, but none of the
> magic noises happen. I think its more of the actual tumblers worn out
> than anything else, cause there are no clicks that you would normally
> run into when turning the key.
> Once again, suggestions appreciated.
> And finally, unrelated to the vanagon, but volkswagon related
> nonetheless, anyone know where you can get speedometers repaired.
> The one on the scirocco, the speed works, but the odometer is busted.
> I took it out and the main gear on the shaft, where the numbers are,
> won't spin.
> The gear that you can remove from the shaft, is tight and spins the
> shaft, but that first gear just spins.
> I haven't been able to a drop of glue on it to see if that would lock
> it down, and I haven't had any luck searching boneyards for a used
> one.
> It wouldn't really matter except at work I'm reimbursed for mileage
> and if the numbers don't spin, I don't get paid.
> Also the gas gauge doesn't work so every 24 hours, I fill up the car.
> I'm located in southside Virginia.
> Help.
> Onward thru the fog
> David Conner
> terrapin@halifax.com
>
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