Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 15:08:11 -0400
Reply-To: John <johnpatt@WARWICK.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: John <johnpatt@WARWICK.NET>
Organization: PattonSystems International
Subject: Re: 1982 Diesel Intermittent Start Problem (Long)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Donna Stewart wrote:
>
> > I am $250+ into this problem with the local VW dealer. Probably about
> every 3rd time I go to start the van, I turn the key and nothing happens
Hi Donna,
I read your experience and such guesswork by a "professional" repair
facility is disgusting. While automotive systems have gotten very
complex in recent years, the starting circuit hasn't really changed
since the hand crank went the way of the buggy whip. Further the
starting circuit is the same on gas and diesel engines, albeit the
diesel starter has a lot more muscle. I'm not saying that electrical
diagnosis is always easy but if your VW dealer cannot use a voltmeter on
the starting circuit, they should pump gas and turn their workshop into
a convenience store(15 gallons, a loaf of bread and a six pack etc.).
When you turn the key to start, you connect electrical power from a
circuit called B+ to a circuit called terminal #50 inside the ignition
switch. If successful, the #50 circuit sends electrical power to term
#50 on the starter solenoid. If the electrical power is greater than say
9 volts the starter is engaged in the flywheel and begins to spin the
motor. With the vehicle on a lift, this starting process can be easily
monitored in minutes with a voltmeter! If you turn the key and NOTHING
happens(no sound at all), one of three things is happening:
The ignition switch is not applying enough power to #50 (voltage drop).
Not enough power is reaching the starter solenoid #50 (voltage drop).
The starter solenoid is defective and not responding to the #50 impulse.
All of the above can be monitored easily with a cheap voltmeter. While
it's true the battery state of charge, the cables and grounds should
also be checked, these would have more of an effect on the cranking
speed than your symptom of no solenoid activation. However all of these
primary power points can be easily checked in minutes using--yes you
guessed it, a voltmeter! Another aspect that makes your symptom easy to
diagnose is the regularity with which it occurs. Very intermitent
problems can render a voltmeter usless if the problem will not occur
when the voltmeter is connected to the circuit. However it's very likely
that your problem would occur repeatedly, making THIS diagnosis a cinch!
While there are baffling Vanagon problems(just read the list!), this
isn't one off them. If you were nearby, I would ask you to drop by and I
would give you my voltmeter, I would connect it to the circuit and YOU
would be able to tell ME where the problem is, without any guesswork and
wasted dollars.
I am a contract trainer for Ford Motor Company in their Asia-Pacific
region. Chinese technicians take great pride in their technical skills.
If one of my Chinese students missed this diagnosis, he would be shamed
by his co-workers and might throw himself in front of a goddamn bus! The
workshop you're dealing with however, seems content to "poke & hope"
with your money. Professionally speaking I don't believe a vomtmeter was
ever connected to your vehicle. You should ask for your money back and
go to another workshop, one that knows the value of voltage drop
testing!!!!!
Regards, John
P.S. Years ago, VW had a technical specifications booklet and the book
was titled "Without Guesswork". I guess that title doesn't mean much to
today's VW dealer technician..................
