Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 22:41:26 -0500
Reply-To: Marshall Ruskin <mruskin@PANGEA.CA>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Marshall Ruskin <mruskin@PANGEA.CA>
Subject: Re: Seam rust. Yuck.
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Yes, Steve, I do now know how to deal with seam rust!
(I am currently taking an autobody course, evenings at a local H school.)
My van is similar to yours, at least in that it has seam rust.
First off, there is no reason, other than time, why one cannot repair 95% of
this themselves, at little cost (just materials). It's so easy!
Simple bodywork, perhaps excepting painting, is IMHO, a highly over-rated
trade. Even first timers in my class, total fools, are doing first class
jobs. I think the main diff between us and pro's - is that pros are lots
faster at it.
What you will need to buy at an auto paint supply store (not Home Depot or
Can Tire):
A good utility knife, with retractable blades, and 2 or 3 replacement
blades,
6 of the long strips of 80 grit automotive sandpaper
some 240 grit sp, wet/dry if possible
tube of seam sealer, and a caulking gun (Home Depot - ok, only for the gun)
a quart of 2 part epoxy primer, a high fill type (lots of solids to aid
coverage)
a small paint brush, a larger paint brush ;>);
laccuur (sp) thinner or something similar.
Get a coupla tin cans to hold the mixed primer.
2 rolls of 1/2 inch masking tape, 1 roll of 2" wide masking tape.
Here's what you do to eliminate the rusty seams:
You know how in profile the seams form a "v" shape?
What you want to do is take the utility knife, and carefully follow the
contours of the seam, and cut out the sealer - it's like a vinyl grout.
You want it all out, and you want to scrape away all the rust you can. Be
patient, and don't do anything beyond what needs it.
Obviously, keep the knife under control, take your time and don't go nuts
and scratch the body. Remove your rings and watch, too!
Now, take the tape, and carefully mask off both sides of the seam, to
protect the paint along the seam, because sanding is next.
Get a piece of sandpaper, and fold it into three - it stays in your hand
better that way, as it grips itself.
Now, with the edge of the folded paper, start sanding the interior of the
seam until it is bright metal. This does not take nearly as long as you'd
think.
Remove the tape, and wipe out the seam with the thinner - or a
cleaner-degreaser.
Apply tape to protect all unexposed areas of paint. Make sure that any bare
metal is NOT hidden by the tape - or you have invited rust.
Mix up a small amount of the primer - maybe a total of 2 ounces or so - as
you need very little.
With the paintbrush, carefully apply primer to the exposed and cleaned seam.
When it is barely dry to the touch, remove the tape.
This is now a waterproof, impenetrable surface for the seam sealer to go on.
Much better than the original - much tighter and harder.
If you want to put on a second coat of primer, do it according the
directions on the can - they will discuss how soon a second coat can go on.
You may want to smooth it out with a 240 grit wet/dry sandpaper, using
water. Up to you.
Now, get ready for the seam sealer.
Now, make sure that the paint around the seam is properly masked with tape.
An idea here is to use the seam sealer to cover any primer that you have
exposed (ie: any mistakes!)
So, applying the seam sealer is like this:
Do - Work in small areas or portions at a time - finish one before you move
to another section;
Do - have a rag with thinner handy for cleanups or smoothing out;
Do - put a THIN bead of sealer in the groove;
Do - slide your finger along the bead, to press the sealer into the seam
well (may be helpfully for finger to be wet with thinner);
Do- use wet cloth to smooth it out of needed.
Now, if your van is white, like mine is, you're essentially done.
If you want to paint, that's another story (coming soon!) - but at least the
rusty seams are now dealt with.
I am going to have rockGuard sprayed on the lower body sections, and the
wheelwells - but I haven't done that yet - so I can't talk about it from
personal experience.
When I'm done, I'll share the tricks I've picked up.
Hope this helps,
Marshall Ruskin
84 Westy "Iron Igloo"
-----Original Message-----
From: S Sittservl <Ssittservl@AOL.COM>
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Date: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 7:33 PM
Subject: Seam rust. Yuck.
>I have seam rust on my '88 Westfalia. Not exactly a big surprise,
>of course. It's primarily in the low horizontal seam on the driver's
>side, just like everybody else's. For a while it was just bubbling
>up under the paint, but now the paint has flaked off significantly.
>No rust-through, as far as I can tell. Also, when I had the fridge
>out a while back, I had Ziebart put rust convertor and anti-rust
>protector (a thick waxy stuff) in the wall, so supposedly I shouldn't
>get any new rust via that route.
>
>So my question is, what to do about it. I've followed past rust
>discussions on the list, but I haven't quite managed to gather what
>to do. I'm probably not up to doing any serious body work myself,
>though I could probably manage something easy. Also, I don't
>necessarily need "show quality" results - I just want something
>that looks reasonably good for a 12-year-old vehicle (which I'm
>planning to keep long-term), and I want to stop the progression
>of the rust.
>
>I went to three body shops and got estimates. Here's what they offered:
>
>Solution 1: "grind and fill" rusted seam, and repaint the area. However,
> all said the rust might return.
>Dealer: $898, 1 year warrenty on rust return
>Independant shop I've used before: $856, no warrenty on rust return
>Maaco: $616, either no or 90 day warrenty (I forget which)
>
>Solution 2: replace lower half of the large side panel, plus
> the narrow bottom side panel, and repaint the area.
>Dealer: didn't check - they reccomended this only if
> they found rust-through during the grind-and-fill.
>Independant body shop: $1441, guarenteed no rust return
>Maaco: $1547, guarenteed against rust, but I don't know for how long.
>
>(Yeah, I know Maaco's reputation. They did fine on a very small job
>I gave them a few weeks ago, though, and examples they showed me
>of their work looked good, but I'd check more thoroughly before using
>them.)
>
>So: all of these are expensive. Is the grind and fill likely to be good
>enough? Does anyone have anything less expensive and/or more
>effective to reccomend?
>
> -Steven Sittser
>
