Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 17:24:05 -0400
Reply-To: David Beierl <dbeierl@IBM.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: David Beierl <dbeierl@IBM.NET>
Subject: Re: MIME Message! (non-vw related)
In-Reply-To: <NDBBLJMIKKPIIGCCAEOBIEGKCLAA.coyote@macromedia.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 15:38 5/23/2000, Ron 'Coyote' Lussier wrote:
>I respectably disagree. HTML stands for 'Hypertext Markup Language' and is
>not web-specific. I've personally implemented a chat interface using HTML.
>It's designed for document formatting, much as TEX or SGML.
Of course. Jeff was I believe saying that HTML is *appropriate* to the
Web, because its abilities are necessary there.
>Likewise, some now say that email documents have no need for fonts or
>styles. To these people, email should only be written in a fixed font
>without embellishment. Though there is a lot to say for minimalism, I
I have to differ here -- I myself prefer to use occasional italic or
boldface for emphasis as well, along with underline, color and font
changes, and all the rest. The trouble is, it's *expensive.* Take a look
below at the source code for Brent's message -- is it fair to estimate that
half the code or less is text? And he didn't even use a single byte of the
formatting code, except to specify a font size in the beginning. If he had
hand-coded the message the overhead would have been much smaller, but it
would have taken longer to do, not to mention requiring him to learn HTML
coding. The question here is bang for the buck. Is it *worth* asking
gerry to send an additional three megabytes or so of data to the list so
that this message can appear in a font size that scales itself in an
unpredictable way to the particular display characteristics of whoever is
reading it? I'm not picking on Brent, his msg was just easy to hand and
represents the latest thinkin from uSoft.
>The argument against HTML formatting on the basis of the number of
>characters in the letter is a specious one. The difference for text
>messages is not noticeable.
In my experience the additional overhead varies from about 30% to over
100%, sometimes much more for very short messages. To me that's
noticeable. 100% overhead is just like my Vanagon taking a dive to 9
miles-per-gallon! Take a look below:
> (Embedded graphics are another matter
>entirely.) Likewise, the use of HTML as a formatting tool does not in any
>way translate to either tracking or ads.
I'm not so sure. People are already using a trick with a 1-pixel graphic
that makes it very easy to visit a website without knowing it. I forget
the details and haven't time to look them up now. But I can easily see a
new latest-and-greatest mailer that would execute html code to go out and
fetch stuff off the web when a message is opened, and I think that might
give some very interesting possibilities to our market-tracking friends.
cheers
david (html source below)
><x-html>
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
><HTML>
><HEAD>
><META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=windows-1252">
><META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2448.0">
><TITLE>RE: MIME Message! (non-vw related)</TITLE>
></HEAD>
><BODY>
>
><P><FONT SIZE=2>Brian, and others suffering the digest mode:</FONT>
></P>
>
><P><FONT SIZE=2>Unfortunately, this problem is only going to get
>worse. You see, Microsoft Outlook 2000 pretty much forces html (what
>you are referring to as "MIME" is actually html code).
>There is no way to turn it off, unless you turn it off for the entire
>company on the Exchange Server. This is a known bug, and Microsoft
>has yet to rectify the problem (as of a couple of weeks ago). As
>more and more people "upgrade" to Office 2000, this problem will
>become more prevalent.</FONT></P>
>
><P><FONT SIZE=2>A better solution would be to upgrade the listserv
>software so that it can handle and parse the html code in the digest
>mode. Certainly, this must be available. (Tom??)</FONT></P>
>
><P><FONT SIZE=2>Face it folks, the world is moving to html-based
>e-mail. It provides people with a "richer" experience (I
>always love it when I get e-mails from people in red text on a black and
>yellow background).</FONT></P>
>
><P><FONT SIZE=2>BTW, you can recognize html code by the prevalence of
>stuff like:</FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=2> </FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=2><p>&nbsp;</p></FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=2><p>aux. battery</p></FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=2><p><b>tires</b></p></FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=2><p><font
>face="Tahoma"><b>Vanagon</b>Syncro</font></p></FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=2><p><br></FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=2></p></FONT>
></P>
>
><P><FONT SIZE=2></body></FONT>
></P>
>
><P><FONT SIZE=2></html></FONT>
></P>
>
><P><FONT SIZE=2>> -----Original Message-----</FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=2>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [<A
>HREF="mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM">mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM</A>]On
>Behalf</FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Of Brian T Bolding</FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Sent: Monday, May 22, 2000 11:35 PM</FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=2>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM</FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Subject: MIME Message! (non-vw related)</FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=2>> gosh! there is sooo much MIME in these emails in the
>digest </FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=2>> version it's</FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=2>> really a pain to read the emails. Can everyone
>PLEASE turn </FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=2>> off their HTML or</FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Microsoft Rich Text in your Outlook program or other
>email programs?</FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=2>> thanx</FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=2>> brian in dallas</FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=2>> <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/eskimocha/"
>TARGET="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/eskimocha/</A></FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=2>> _____________________________________________</FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=2>> NetZero - Defenders of the Free World</FONT>
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><BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>
></P>
>
></BODY>
></HTML>
></x-html>
David Beierl - Providence, RI
http://pws.prserv.net/synergy/Vanagon/
'84 Westy "Dutiful Passage"
'85 GL "Poor Relation"
