Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 11:12:56 -0600
Reply-To: "Jon B. Kanas" <kanas@quality.qadas.com>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: "Jon B. Kanas" <kanas@quality.qadas.com>
Subject: Behr AC; Air Leaks; Alarms; Scope Creep
In-Reply-To: <000601bfe5ea$c4b88c00$e60a7418@default>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Jeanne,
Behr still makes radiators etc. for German cars as their primary business,
so a condenser should not be difficult to obtain. It is the "aftermarket"
AC products which they have discontinued. I suspect that the VW "factory"
condenser and Behr are one and the same. On my Mercedes, both the
radiator and AC condenser are Behr parts and also bear the Mercedes star
and part number, indicating that the Behr products were OEM.
Air Leak: Be sure and tell the body shop about the air leak. I found
that when my AC was installed, the oval hole which is required for the
evaporator lines was poorly cut and had no seal at all, allowing a huge
amount of air into the cabin around the evaporator tubes. On my
installation, this opening was behind and below the right headlight,
visible with the grille removed. My bodyshop fabricated a small piece of
sheet metal and installed it with alot of goo to seal the area. Another
probable source of air infiltration is the rubber seal where the brake
lines go into the tunnel (under the radio, in front of the shifter).
There is a large rubber seal which you can find if you remove the air
duct; you might want to check this too.
Noisy Fan: I assume we're talking about the evaporator fan(s) inside the
bus.... Getting to these fans requires removal of the entire dashboard;
It is NOT a trivial job. Once the dashboard is out, they are easily
accessed and removed from the evaporator housing. If the body shop will
be removing the dashboard as part of your repair regimen, I would pay them
extra to pull the fan motor(s) and send them to an electric motor shop
for lubrication, and possibly bearings.
Alarm: I was able to mount the horn for the alarm directly behind the
right headlight. The brain is very small, and I installed it next to the
aux fusebox for the air conditioning on the tunnel, under the ductwork.
This is very convenient as the wiring from the interior light switches is
immediately accessible, as is power. I installed the LED status indicator
in the blank plastic plate above the steering wheel, and the motion sensor
below the tachometer. On the initial installation, the alarm horn was
damaged beyond repair during a rainstorm (a little installation advise
here). The alarm I have is brand Excalibur. It is much more
sophisticated than I needed; it can be wired into your interior lights and
electric locks for a keyless entry as well as alarm system. It has a
current sensing option which I also turned off as the automatic fan on the
refrigerator would trigger the alarm when it came on.
If you're going to perform the alarm installation yourself, it might be an
ideal time to remove the entire dashboard, have the AC blower motors
serviced, track down and kill all the air leaks, clean every connector you
can find, tighten stuff etc. I did my alarm when I had the dashboard out
working on the wiring problems for the AC. The alarm installation was
simplified and I was able to solve all kinds of other niggly problems
while I was in there.
Isn't it amazing how the scope of these little projects creeps up to
consume all available time and money?
Regards;
Let us know what happens!!!
Jon
On Tue, 4 Jul 2000, Jeanne Maly wrote:
> Jon,
>
> The van is going into the body shop tomorrow. The really obvious damage was to
> the condensor, not the compressor. The jury is still out on the compressor.
> Interestingly enough, the body shop tells me that Behr will provide a condensor.
> I was fairly adamant that I didn't want just any old cheap parts and that if the
> OEM AC part would work that they should use it. However, he obviously did get a
> condensor from Behr. I'll let you know when the system is working again which
> parts were replaced and with what. (Wonder if I could get the noisy fan done?
> It still works so I'm not touching it unless it dies. Your article sure scares
> me about anything failing.)
>
> One other thing in your article: What kind of alarm did you put in and where
> did you put the alarm? I looked in the front (very easy to do right now, I
> might add) and I don't see where it could go. I'm also really concerned about
> the baffling that keeps heat/cold out of the van. Right now there is pretty
> much a gale force breeze blowing in there and not through the vents.
>
> Jeanne
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jon B Kanas <kanas@qadas.com>
> To: 'Jeanne Maly' <traveller57@cableone.net>
> Sent: Monday, July 03, 2000 9:25 PM
> Subject: RE: Behr Air Conditioning
>
>
> > Jeanne,
> >
> > I apologize for the tardy reply, but I've been on a 10-day, 2500 mile camping
> > vacation in the Westfailia, in Wyoming.
> >
> > In answer to your question, the compressor in my Vanagon is not a Behr brand
> > unit. It is a rotary compressor, and looks similar to the one in Kim's Subaru
> > Outback. I would think that the factory unit would be an appropriate
> > replacement (or any other quality compressor that will mount properly on the
> > engine). I recently changed fan belts on mine, and discovered that the Behr
> > compressor required a longer belt than the stock belt. I assume that this is
> > due to the mounting configuration, not the compressor...
> >
> > As a side note, a deer committed suicide using my 1987 Syncro as the method du
> > jour about three years ago just North of San Francisco. We were lucky, no
> > damage to the condenser or radiator, but the damage was still significantly
> > over $1000.
> >
> > Please email me again once you have the problem resolved, and let me know what
> > you have done. Now that Behr does not supply these products any more, I would
> > like to keep track of what parts from where work, since I received one or two
> > inquiries a month from list members after my posting regarding these AC units.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Jon Kanas
> >
> > On Friday, June 23, 2000 9:31 PM, Jeanne Maly [SMTP:traveller57@cableone.net]
> > wrote:
> > > John,
> > >
> > > I've saved this email about the Behr for over a year and went back to have a
> > > read again.
> > >
> > > My van was hit by a deer. (Oh, all right, I hit him but he must have been
> > > drunk
> > > to jump out at me like that.) Anyway, my compressor is damaged. I gave the
> > > body shop a phone number for Behr but I suspect they won't have a compressor
> > > to
> > > supply. Would you go with the VW OEM?
> > >
> > > Jeanne
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Jon B. Kanas <kanas@QUALITY.QADAS.COM>
> > > To: <vanagon@VANAGON.COM>
> > > Sent: Monday, January 04, 1999 11:36 AM
> > > Subject: Behr Air Conditioning
> > >
> > >
> > > > I have received several inquiries about the layout and configuration of
> > > > the Behr aftermarket air conditioning system installed in many Vanagons.
> > > > I have prepared the following (long) description that I hope will be
> > > > useful to some of my fellow Vanagon owners.
> > > >
> > > > Behr of Germany makes primarily air conditioning systems and radiators.
> > > > They, like most German companies, make excellent products, some of which
> > > > have noteworthy flaws. They are a primary supplier to Mercedes, Porsche
> > > > and Volkswagen. I have seen units identical to mine in both water and
> > > > air-cooled Vanagons, and the installation is essentially identical. I
> > > > believe that they are quite common.
> > > >
> > > > The unit in my 1987 Vanagon Syncro Westfalia consists of a rotary R-12
> > > > compressor, mounted on the usual VW brackets on the top at the LR corner
> > > > of the engine compartment. The compressor is belt-driven, the belt drives
> > > > the compressor only, no other items. The engine pulley has three belt
> > > > tiers (a/c, p/s, alternator & water pump). Access for replenishing and
> > > > checking the freon charge is via schrader valves adjacent to the
> > > > compressor, on top of the engine. It is an elegant installation, and does
> > > > not interfere with access to other items on the engine. Removal of the
> > > > water pump may require moving the compressor. I haven't had to address
> > > > this yet.
> > > >
> > > > The condenser is mounted in front of the radiator. I suspect is the
> > > > factory condenser since it fits in the factory mounts, and is as large as
> > > > the radiator. On the air-cooled Vanagons, the condenser is also mounted
> > > > in the front, behind the plastic radiator grille and fresh air intake.
> > > > The receiver/dryer unit is placed immediately adjacent to the condenser,
> > > > and is accessible via the upper front grille of the Vanagon.
> > > >
> > > > The evaporator is installed under the dashboard on the passenger's side.
> > > > The large plastic housing also encloses two three-speed blowers. The
> > > > housing extends below the dashboard, and requires removal of the top half
> > > > of the glove compartment enclosure, reducing the volume of the glove
> > > > compartment. Two drain hoses are located at the bottom of the enclosure,
> > > > connect below the enclosure via a 'Y' connector, with a single hose
> > > > exiting the interior of the Vanagon through a hole in the floor on the
> > > > front right corner of the passenger footwell. This plumbing is under the
> > > > passenger footwell carpet, and is not visible from the interior.
> > > >
> > > > The blowers take in air from under the dashboard, blowing it into the
> > > > evaporator enclosure. There is a small duct at the top left of the
> > > > evaporator enclosure (maybe 30mm diameter) which directs air to a
> > > > dual-vent panel which is installed in the factory radio location. The two
> > > > hoses from the vents at the ends of the dashboard are disconnected from
> > > > the stock fresh air intake, and connected to fittings on the evaporator
> > > > enclosure. The stock fresh air intake is capped, and rendered inoperative
> > > > to these two vents.
> > > >
> > > > A new housing for the radio is included with the system. The radio mounts
> > > > in the housing, the housing then attaches, vertically, to the plastic
> > > > heater outlet panel below the main dashboard. The quality of the
> > > > replacement radio housing is dubious, it is easily broken.
> > > >
> > > > The system has one large power lead (maybe 10 gauge) which connects to an
> > > > ignition hot circuit. The system, as supplied by Behr, includes it's own
> > > > fuse block with 4 fuses. There is a fuse for the compressor, and one for
> > > > each fan. I do not remember the purpose of the fourth fuse; it may
> > > > control power to the cooling fan override circuit. On my Vanagon, this
> > > > fuseblock is located on the "tunnel" behind the heater duct panel. When
> > > > the radio is moved onto this panel, the radio must be removed before the
> > > > panel can be moved to access the fuses. There is a wire which in spliced
> > > > into the factory radiator cooling fan harness, downstream of the radiator
> > > > thermostat. The radiator cooling fan is activated via this circuit
> > > > whenever the compressor in engaged, to insure adequate airflow through the
> > > > condenser.
> > > >
> > > > The air conditioning system has three controls; One for each fan and a
> > > > rheostat to control cooling. Low and Medium fan speeds are controlled by
> > > > directing current through appropriate wire resistors for each motor. The
> > > > rheostat varies the sensitivity of a thermal sensor in the evaporator
> > > > which engages and disengages the compressor to meet cooling demands.
> > > >
> > > > History; Problems & Fixes:
> > > >
> > > > My Vanagon Syncro was involved in a front-end collision before I bought it
> > > > in 1992. The overall repair job was excellent; I only figured out what
> > > > happened when I pulled the dashboard to install an alarm, replace the
> > > > speedometer cable and get one of the a/c blowers to work on low speed.
> > > > During replacement of the front sheet metal, the a/c system was
> > > > disconnected, and not properly rewired. I contacted Behr based on a label
> > > > I found on the system. They were very helpful, and provided me with
> > > > extensive documentation and troubleshooting assistance. They advised me
> > > > that they no longer make this system, and that many of the parts specific
> > > > to the aftermarket system are no longer available.
> > > >
> > > > On my Vanagon, the weight of the radio frequently "unsnapped" the heater
> > > > outlet panel from the dashboard on rough roads. I solved this by drilling
> > > > inconspicuous holes in the heater ducts behind the outlet panel, and using
> > > > sheet metal screws with metal backplates to physically keep the outlet
> > > > panel in place. This has been an easy and effective fix; Behr should
> > > > have thought of this and advised to do this in their installation
> > > > procedures.
> > > >
> > > > The Low and Medium fan speed resistor pack for fan motor #2 failed, and a
> > > > replacement part was not available. I fixed this by connecting the HIGH
> > > > setting of fan #2 to the HIGH circuit on fan #1 so that both fans are on
> > > > full blast when the fan #1 switch is on the HIGH position. The fan switch
> > > > for fan #2 has been removed, and replaced by a red LED which comes on
> > > > whenever the compressor is engaged. This helps me know if the compressor
> > > > is running when attempting to climb hills. If necessary, I can adjust the
> > > > temperature rheostat such that the compressor disengages so that maximum
> > > > power is available for propulsion. The fan(s) continue to run,
> > > > circulating residual cool air until I manually engage the compressor. I
> > > > found, this summer, on a long drive across the Eastern Colorado desert
> > > > that the fan switch was overheating when on high. It did OK with only one
> > > > fan, but two fans is overloading it. I will replace the switch and put a
> > > > relay into the HIGH fan circuit when I have the dashboard out to resolve
> > > > some unrelated problems.
> > > >
> > > > The evaporator enclosure has cracked near one of the drain hoses, causing
> > > > water to drip into the passenger footwell. Hopefully some silicone seal
> > > > will address this.
> > > >
> > > > The unit became discharged once during the six years I have owned it. One
> > > > of the schraeder valves in the engine compartment failed, allowing the
> > > > freon to leak out. The system was evacuated, re-lubricated and recharged
> > > > and has been subsequently trouble-free.
> > > >
> > > > Advantages of Behr Aftermarket System:
> > > > 1) No ceiling ducts, blowers or controls to fall on your head
> > > > 2) No loss of overhead storage cabinet to rear evaporator as on factory
> > > > unit.
> > > > 3) No auxiliary air intake imbedded in LR window.
> > > > 4) Adequate on long trips in summer when cooling for extended period.
> > > > 5) Recirculates interior air for maximum cooling efficiency.
> > > > 6) Loss of fresh air ventilation capability at dash end vents.
> > > > 7) Clean, inconspicuous installation.
> > > >
> > > > Disadvantages of Behr Aftermarket System:
> > > > 1) Only front passengers receive cooling. No direct ducts to rear of
> > > > Vanagon
> > > > 2) Loss of approximately 1/2 glove compartment volume.
> > > > 3) Placement of fuse panel behind dash panel is inconvenient.
> > > > 4) Dual blowers loud when both on high.
> > > > 5) Radio housing for remounting is easily damaged.
> > > >
> > > > I hope that this information is of moderate usefulness!!
> > > > Jon B Kanas
> > > >
> > > > Lockheed Martin Corporation
> > > > Flight Systems Spacecraft Test Lab
> > > > 303-977-6354
> > > > jon.b.kanas@lmco.com
>
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