Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 19:34:11 -0700
Reply-To: Karl Wolz <wolzphoto@worldnet.att.net>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Karl Wolz <wolzphoto@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Cooling woes and the aborted trip to TBTT (somewhat
longish...)
Comments/questions interspersed here and there.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Bosch" <arbosch@ra.rockwell.com>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2000 6:02 PM
Subject: Cooling woes and the aborted trip to TBTT (somewhat longish...)
> In preparation for this weekends Transporters by the Tunnel, I did a
little
> prepping and primping on old Phred. Nothing severe - change the oil and
> filter, drain the coolant, install a new lower-temp thermostat,
Why did you replace the thermostat? Did you have reason to suspect a
problem?
install a
> new temp II sensor, refill, and bleed.
You've bled before and it's been OK? (You know what you're doing?)
Took the bus out for a drive
> Thursday afternoon and noticed the temp needle settling about half way
> between the LED and the top of the guage. Not to worry, I told myself,
> just do another bleed tomorrow.
Did you get more air bubbles?
And I did. Friday came, loaded the bus
> with my gear and 4 year old son, and headed East for a relaxing six hour
> drive. Well, never made it half way - turned around in Syracuse.
>
> About fifty or so miles in to the drive, the LED on the temp guage starts
> flashing and the needle shot up to just under the hot zone. Pulled over
> and let the bus cool down.
Was the bus hot? Physical symptoms that would lead you to believe that the
engine was actually hot?
Do you have a tachometer? This may seem irrelevant, but my '85 has a tach
(GL) and when there is a short or a bad connection in the coolant light
system the light starts flashing, but the nedle stays in the same position,
whereas my '84 (no tach, non-GL) has a different system where if there is a
short the light flashes ANDS the guage rises.
Upon restarting, the needle went up to a
> needle-width over the LED and stayed there. After another thirty or so
> miles, the LED started to flash again and the needle shot up. With my son
> in the bus, I deceided I couldn't chance it and turned around and limped
> home, thirty miles at a time.
You've deprived your son of a true adventure! At four years of age, he
should know that Vanagons are NOT TO BE TRUSTED.
>
> This morning, I went over my bleeding check list and found that I missed
> nothing. I started up the bus and within a minute the LED flashed it's
> wicked little flicker. Pulled the bus up on the ramps and crawled under.
> Nothing. No leaks. I then removed the protective tin around the cylinder
> heads and found the drivers side has some dried orange coolant residue on
> it. But that could be from the coolant the spilled during the change.
>
> So here are some questions for the lists collective wisdom:
>
> (1) What, exactly, does the flashing coolant LED mean? I've heard it
> means low coolant, and I've heard it means it's over heated.
See above. It can mean either, or both. You need to rely on your other
senses, including common, a bit.
>
> (2) Presuming the worst, how does one go about establishing that the
heads
> and/or head gaskets are shot? The presence of dried coolant - no visible
> leaks - can not be the only way. Never having experienced this failure -
> but perhaps due - I was under the impression "you'll know it when it
> happens". Catastrophic failure comes to mind.
You'll know it when it happens. Take a very wet rag and clean off the
orange residue from your last filling adventure and let it dry. Run the van
a bit and see if it reaccumulates. If sok, you're on your way to that
catastrophic failure. If not, most likely, you just dribbled. I've had it
go both ways, finding the seepage and having all Hell break loose.
Appropriately, when I had the catastrophic failure, it happened in the
middle of Utah (Aarrgh - stranded!).
>
> (3) Having done the fill and bleed routine twice on Thursday (and three
> times in the past) what are the chances that I've got an air bubble in the
> cooling system that is causing these problems?
Did you have the front of the van jacked up 16"? Did you have the bypass
valve open? Were both heaters running at full? Did you run the engine till
it was fully warmed up and then run for a while at 3Krpm? If so, you
probably don't have a bubble hiding anywhere.
>
> (4) Again, presuming the worst, do I go for gaskets and heads? Just
> gaskets? One side? Both? Or chuck the whole engine with 114K, and
> install one from Boston Engine?
Remember the "Hitchhikers Guide to the Universe", by Scostt Adams? DON'T
PANIC
Seriously, take it one step at a time. You probably overlooked something
minor.
>
> (5) What else is there to check? I've been over the cooling system with
a
> fine tooth comb and I can't figuire this out.
Time will tell, Grasshopper.
>
> Any and all help appreciated. My son was so looking forward to his first
> camping trip. I feel terrible that I could not fix whatever's wrong so we
> could have gone. Please, volks, help me out here. I'm dreading the
> news...
Don't lay the "I-failed-my-four-year-old guilt trip on yourself. There's
always next weekend. If there isn't a next weekend, we all have more
troubles than your cooling system!
>
> Alan Bosch
> & a lame Phred ('88 Wolfsburg)
> Rochester, NY
I read Bob Lilly's post, and while he is quite knowledgeable on these
matters, I'm of the opinion that if you have a problem with basic operation
of the vehicle, you shouldn't be wasting time looking for exotic cures. It
is designed to function quite well just the way it was set up at the
factory. Using water wetter, etc. may be helpful, but you need to fix
what's broken first.
BTW, I suspect either the circuitry (if you have no real evidence of
overheating (steam hissing, hot metal smell, etc.) or the new thermostat.
Remember, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!")
Good luck,
Karl Wolz
