Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 23:54:30 -0400
Reply-To: Marc Perdue <marcperdue@adelphia.net>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Marc Perdue <marcperdue@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Stereo status...long
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Hi all,
Since I've been going through this same process, I'll share my experiences
too. I'm like Mark in that I also like Crutchfield, but possibly for
different reasons. First, I live near Charlottesville, Crutchfield's home
base, so I've been able to go into their store for years and get good
advice and get decent, not the best mind you, but decent, deals on stereo
equipment. Second, they started out those many years ago distinguishing
themselves by building a complete install package for many different makes
of cars and having very knowledgeable sales people that could tell you how
to install the equipment in YOUR car. Finally, their return policy is
really good and any time I haven't been completely satisfied with the way a
system sounded, I've brought the equipment back and had no problem
whatsoever returning it.
Here're my recent experiences that are specific to the Vanagon. When I got
the van, the sound was horrible (the cheap AM radio effect that
SpaceKommander talked about), the door where the tape goes was gone, and
several knobs and buttons were either gone or half melted by a clumsy
smoker (I presume). My first instinct has always been to replace cheap
factory speakers first, but this time I decided to replace all 4 speakers
AND the head unit. I called Crutchfield (hey, it was midnight and the
store was closed!) and they said the only head unit (forget whether it's a
tape or CD player) that would fit was the Kenwood KRC-2007 (15X2 W RMS,
25X2 W Peak). They matched it up with Kenwood KFC-1066s, 4" speakers with
a frequency response of 45-22K Hz, recommended range of 2-27W RMS and peak
power of 80W.
I replaced the rear speakers and the tape deck first with the following
results:
1) Sometimes when I would turn the deck on, the left side speakers were
barely audible. I could consistently get them to come on by either
cranking the system up loud or by shifting the balance all the way left and
turning the volume up a little. Hmmm . . .
2) Forget about bass . . . it just weren't there. Whenever I'd turn up the
volume to try and get more bass, the low end would get distorted.
3) The tape deck ate my tape of my brother's band! }:^(
After the tape-eating incident, I decided that I'd had enough of cassette
decks. I took the deck back and had them measure the space for the head
unit to see what I could replace it with. I think I actually got the
person who takes all the measurements of vehicles and dictates the specs
listed in their catalog. He was kind of upset when I questioned his specs
for the Vanagon. Even so, I traded the 2007 for a Kenwood KDC-4015 (22X4 W
RMS, 45X4 W Peak), which is 6 3/4" deep vs. the 6 1/8" depth of the 2007.
The 4015 installed MUCH more easily than the 2007 did! More in a minute .
. .
I decided that I was going to have to put in an amp to fill out the bass
end and, per Crutchfield's recommendation, put 600 Hz bass blockers on all
4 speakers to get rid of the distortion. For financial reasons, I decided
to hold off on the amp/subwoofer combo for the moment. While I was putting
the bass-blockers in, I discovered that the wiring to the left side front
speaker had been broken at some point. The PO had repaired the break by
twisting the wires together and taping them up with scotch tape!
After fixing the break properly and installing the bass-blockers and
KDC-4015, I got these results:
1) The low-end got worse. What do you expect? I stripped everything off
below 600 Hz!
2) All of a sudden, the front speakers, OEM Blaupunkts, were significantly
louder than the back ones, the new Kenwoods. I checked this not only from
the front seats, but from several points in the van.
3) Balance doesn't work properly on the back speakers. When I shift the
balance either left or right, both back speakers get louder; in the middle,
they're quietest.
4) The good news was that what sound there was coming out of the front
speakers was really good.
My thinking was that the new head unit was a better match for the more
efficient Blaupunkt speakers, so I pulled the new Kenwoods out of the back
and pulled the bass-blockers. The result is a more balanced system that
actually has some bass, though not much, and is actually almost
acceptable. In fact, when parked the sound is really quite good.
At this point I was getting somewhat skeptical of Crutchfield's advice, but
they've been good to me in the past, so I decided to try again. I took the
van around back and asked the installers what they would recommend to fill
out the sound. Much to my surprise, they recommended essentially the same
thing that SpaceKommander did, a 6" or 8" Bazooka powered subwoofer. I was
dubious that a subwoofer that small would be sufficient, so I went to a
stereo-specialty store where they recommended an Eclipse amp and 12" JBL
sub (cutting a big hole in the panel under the rear seat to mount the
speaker . . . yikes!), all for a nominal fee of around $500. Hmmm . . .
My last visit to Crutchfield and Stereo Types was Friday. My current plan
is to try Crutchfield's solution. It's much cheaper, easier to install,
and, if need be, I can return the sub if it's not satisfactory and won't
have to make major modifications to my van. I'm also going to exchange the
Kenwood 1066's as partial pmt. I'll let you all know how the system sounds
when I'm done. I think that SpaceKommander was spot on in his analysis.
The Vanagon is so noisy that it doesn't really make sense to invest tons of
money trying to overcome the noise. Having said that, I don't think it's
unreasonable to try to achieve a decent balanced sound, and I think this
small, powered sub-woofer might be just the thing.
If I were going to do it right, however, I would do like Bulley did with
all of the heat and sound insulation, put tweeters where the current front
door speakers are, put 6.5" speakers on the bottom of the front doors and
put in the 12" JBL under the rear seat! :^)
More soon . . . after all, I can't stand to be too long without decent
sound . . .
Marc Perdue
Mark Mages wrote:
> Distortion is caused by speakers trying to hit notes
> they were not designed to take. Try and find some
> specs on your speakers, but if not you can call up
> Crutchfield. If you put some inline bass blockers in
> there your speakers will sound better at high volumes
> because they are not trying to hit the sounds intended
> for woofers (under 110hz). I hate to keep pumping
> Crutchfield, but they have them at good prices, and
> can tell you which ones to get for what kind of
> speakers you have. You probably need ones that run
> high=pass at 800hz for 4" speakers if you have an amp,
> or 500 just off the head unit.
>
> The 40wX4 stereo specs is Max power. This is a number
> that tells you how much power your stereo can put out
> for short periods of time. The RMS number is the one
> to pay attention to - it is probably between
> 12-20w/ch. That says how much CLEAN sound your stereo
> can put out per channel.
>
> Yes an amp will help, but you should look into
> different speaker configurations - 4" speakers will
> NEVER put out bass. No matter how much you try. If
> you want to look into a better combination, look for
> some 5.25" midbass speakers for the rear. (If you want
> a recommendation - UBid.com & Ebay usually sells some
> Boss Audio 5.25 mids for 19-29$/pair. Good stuff for
> dirt cheap)
> The door speakers can be pumped up to a max size of
> 6.5" If you get some 6.5" components and mount the
> tweeters on the dash, that would be my first choice,
> and is actually what I am planning on after I finish
> the audio on my Scirocco.
>
> You could also buy some 6.5-8" woofers (or subs) and
> mount them somewhere with an amp. Subs are good, but
> that leaves the majority of the audio spectrum out if
> you just have subs and 4" speakers.
>
> Well, I've rambled on enough - if you have any
> questions, drop me a line.
>
> here is a link to my current stereo system
> http://student.fortlewis.edu/~mwmages/cars/Vanagon/vanpix/vanstereo.htm
>
> HTH
> Mark
> > This is
> > a 40W x 4 unit with remote, and a bunch of other
> > cool features. The
> > remote in particular is neat when you are in the
> > back of the camper.
> >
> > Just finished installing it, and it sounds really
> > good. The weak point
> > is my speakers, which, because I didn't want to
> > modify the van's
> > interior, are the stock size. I have a Westfalia, so
> > there are two 4"
> > speakers in the rear AC housing and two 4" speakers
> > in the front doors.
> > They are 80W Pioneer's, and they sound good except
> > for the lack of good
> > base. I attribute this to the speakers' small size
> > and their location in
> > the door. At highway speeds, you can't turn the
> > volume up enough without
> > getting distortion.
> >
> > I'm wondering if an amplifier will help this
> > situation. The CD player as
> > preamp outputs, so It's designed for an amp. I like
> > the sound, but the
> > base is not too good.
> >
> > Anyone care to comment?
> >
> > Dan
>
> =====
> Mark
> If you're not paranoid, you're not paying attention.
>
> 87 Westfalia Gl
> 84 Scirocco 8v
> http://student.fortlewis.edu/~mwmages/
>
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