Date:         Mon, 14 Aug 2000 01:20:26 EDT
Reply-To:     Oxroad@aol.com
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Jeffrey R <Oxroad@aol.com>
Subject:      obsolete bleeder for 83.5 solved
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Let me tell you right up front--it's costly.

Thanks for the help from those who offered solutions and who scrounged for
parts for me last week when the bleeder valve in the coolant system on my
83.5 Westy broke and the VW dealer told me the part was obosolete. This is
the bleeder Bentley says you have to open when refilling the coolant system
in the forward left part of the engine compartment. It's a different bleeder
than is found in the 84 and 85 Vanagon.

Thanks to Keith in Nyack, NY and Drew in Park City, UT, and Paul in CA (?).
Also thanks to Limbo's Jim DeGennaro who gave me leads on where I might find
the obsolete bleeder. And to Ken at Vanagain who stocks Vanagon hoses.Thanks
to any others who helped. I'm a bit tired and may have forgotten to mention
someone.

I was not able to find the original style bleeder in a wrecking yard or
anywhere. Then after an e-mail from Paul who had had his bleeder fail in CA
only to find it could not be replaced while on a road trip--well, I decided I
didn't want to put a soon-to-fail bleeder from some else's wrecked bus into
mine and find myself in a similar situation. I'm heading off on a trip myself.

So for those who have the small bleeder, part number 025 121 421A as I did
and will need to replace it, here's what I did. It's actually not that tough
a fix.

The later bleeder, the larger bleeder from the 84 and 85 that sits in-line
with the large diameter coolant hoses that run along the front top of the
engine compartment , serves the same function and can be retrofitted into the
83.5. The bleeder runs about $50 at the dealer. BUT you have to replace the
coolant hoses in the engine compartment that run across the front of the
engine compartment to accomodate the larger bleeder. While the coolant hoses
in the 84 and 85 are the same diameter as the coolant hoses in the 83.5, the
84/85 hoses have a flare where they meet the newer-style bleeder valve. The
stock hoses on the 83.5 will not fit the newer bleeder valve, so that negates
the possibility of merely splitting the existing hoses and splicing in the
bleeder.

The coolant hoses are expensive. I spent over $250. Mostly at the dealer
because I wanted them fast. But the dealer couldn't get one of the hoses so I
called Ken at Van Again. I wish I called him first. He has lots of Vanagon
hoses IN STOCK---NO Waiting. And his prices are great. Because I was in a
hurry he express mailed them and I had them the next day. For those who ever
need of hoses, you'll find Ken at Van Again's stocking of hoses a real plus.
The dealer can take up to 10 days or more to get some of these special order
hoses. Van Again has them IN STOCK ready to ship AND a lot cheaper than the
dealer-- about 1/2 as much, in some cases less. Thanks Ken.

While the fix seems like a no-brainer I wasn't sure all the later parts would
fit in my bus. As it turns out the newer bleeder did not fit without the
newer hoses. But with the newer hoses it was no problem.

Be CAREFUL to note the path of the coolant hoses and where they come from on
the water pump or the thermostat housing and which coolant line they connect
with to take coolant to or from the radiator. It could be easy to
accidentally cross the radiator feed and return lines and the schematics in
Bentley can be confusing.

The parts you'll need for the swap if your early 83.5 bleeder fails or cracks
are:

Bleeder Valve for 84/85: 025 121 082 (manual trans) 025 121 082A (auto trans)

and the following hoses:

Water Pump to Bleeder: 025 121 103C
Thermostat to Bleeder: 025 121 073E
Bleeder to Radiator Feed: 025 121 102
Bleeder to Radiator Return: 025 121 062


A bunch of hose clamps and that phosphate free anti-freeze, and the patience
and finesse to refill the coolant system.

Having said that I have been told by people including Boston Bob you don't
need the bleeder to refill the system. If the bleeder breaks on these early
83.5s you can configure the system to operate without it by bypassing it. I'm
not an expert in this area so I won't go into how that is done --but it is
simple.

Thanks
Jeff
83.5 Westy
NYC