Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 09:07:09 -0700
Reply-To: Karl Wolz <wolzphoto@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Karl Wolz <wolzphoto@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: YIKE! Lost 3 qts oil... [follow-up]
I had the engine on my old quantum seize about a dozen years ago. Turned
out to be a big ol' wad of silicone stuck up in the oil pump. DPO had used
a gob of it on the oil pan.
Karl Wolz
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tobin Copley" <tobin.copley@UBC.CA>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 8:49 AM
Subject: YIKE! Lost 3 qts oil... [follow-up]
> As promised, here's the follow-up to my September 05 post regarding
> the spectacular oil loss in my 1982 vanagon westy with a stock 1.6 L
> normally aspirated motor. The original post with a description of
> the problem is attached below.
>
> The immediate diagnosis was that the seal where the oil cooler mates
> with the engine block had failed. This was a quick and cheap
> replacement. During the replacement, my mechanic observed that a
> fair amount of silicone seal had been used to seal the gasket, which
> possibly contributed to the failure. He reinstalled everything, and
> got 100 feet into the test drive when the oil filter gasket popped
> out and my bus dumped another 3 litres of oil along the street
> outside his shop (and across a busy intersection on a steep hill).
> He refilled with oil, new filter, and carefully drove back to the
> shop without further incident.
>
> Next he dropped the oil pan, removed the oil pump, and found the oil
> pressure relief valve stuck, which wasn't permitting the oil to
> recirculate--the oil pump just pumped up the oil to about a kazillion
> psi, which blew the weakest point downstream to bits.
>
> The pressure relief valve was clogged up with bits of silicone seal
> and assorted small metal frags including some small chunks of brass.
> All the metal together would not have been enough to cover the
> fingernail of his pinky. Given that the engine had been rebuilt less
> than 10,000 miles before, some metal bits are to be expected, and he
> wasn't particularly concerned about it. The silcone seal was likely
> the real culprit here, as it formed plugs beautifully. The valve was
> very jammed up, and it took him well over an hour to free it up and
> get it nice and smooth and reassure himself it wouldn't jam again.
> The labour wasn't cheap, but it's still a hell of a lot cheaper than
> a new pump!
>
> My mechanic also put in lighter weight (15w40) oil for the winter.
> It seems to have slightly (but noticeably) more noise from the valve
> train now, and I'll keep an eye on it and likely bring it in to have
> the lash checked just as a precaution. Maybe I'm just overly picky.
> Engine still runs smooth, good power (for a 1.6L diesel!), nice idle,
> and even power up the band.
>
> The towing company sent a large flat bed tow truck on the ferry to
> get my broken bus off the Island, so I had to pay the commercial rate
> for an overlength and overheight vehicle. I'm trying to get that
> cost back from my towing assistance club, since I asked that they
> send the smallest truck they had. We'll see.
>
> All told, towing and mechanics bills came to over CDN$600.00
> (USD$400.00). Ugh. Stinky and I had a talk when we got home. The
> bus has been great since I bought it in February--aside from the
> usual extra maintenance expected with any newly-acquired used
> vehicle--but this internal engine stuff freaked me out. I do hope
> this is the end of it, since everyone in the family loves the bus and
> we are looking forward to taking a trip down to Baja with it this
> February.
>
> Anyway, listee guesses were (in order of response):
>
> Oil filter O-ring: Nate Wall, Bulley,
> Blown oil galley plug: Nate Wall, Kelley McDaniel, Jim Arnott
> Oil filter itself: Gary San Diego, Alistair Bell
> Oil filter mount assy gasket:Gary San Diego, Nate Wall
> Gen. oil filter/cooler area: Stuart MacMillan, Mark Drillock
> Gunked oil breather housing: Per Lindgren
> Split oil pressure sender: Maynard Southard
>
> Hope you all keep your oil where it belongs!
>
> T.
>
> At 10:54 AM -0700 9/5/00, Tobin Copley wrote:
> >Hi gang,
> >
> >Blew something in my diesel vanagon yesterday, and lost nearly all
> >our oil in just a few seconds, coating the engine compartment with
> >oil spray, and leaving a 200m trail of oil down the road in the
> >process.
> >
> >I'm getting a tow truck over to the island here this afternoon, and
> >I'll have my mechanic on the mainland look at it and give me a
> >diagnosis. If any of you clever people want to take a stab at
> >guessing the problem, I'll post the names of the guessers with the
> >follow-up (if you want).
> >
> >I'll post a follow-up on this when the problem has been identified.
> >Hopefully,the following description, when combined with the
> >follow-up, may help someone out in the future.
> >
> >A description of the problem follows. (For the record, I'm hoping
> >it's a problem with--or related to--the oil cooler).
> >
> >Vehicle:
> >--------
> >1982 vanagon westy, 1.6l NA DIESEL engine, <10K miles on engine
> >rebuild. Castrol GTX 20/50 dino oil, last oil and filter change 500
> >miles ago.
> >
> >The failure:
> >------------
> >Following a cold start in 70 degree F ambient air temperature, drove
> >up a steep hill at moderate load (2nd gear @ 20 mph). During the
> >upshift to 3rd gear at the crest of the hill, oil light blinked on of
> >1/4 second, went out for a little less than 1 second, then came on
> >and stayed on. I turned off the engine less than 3 seconds after
> >first blink of oil light. No untoward engine noises were heard at
> >any point, although valve clatter was *perhaps* a little louder than
> >usual while the engine was shutting down. No bangs, clunks,
> >hammering, lurches, power loss, or any other "expensive" symptoms.
> >
> >After rolling to a rest at the side of the road (less than 1/4 mile
> >from starting point), I saw the following:
> >
> >- Dense trail of oil on road heading back over the crest of the hill
> >(walking back home later showed oil trail started about 50 yds from
> >my driveway, but without a pronounced starting splat or anything.
> >Volume of oil loss along trail appeared to start heavy and decrease
> >in volume only in last 1/3 of trail--coincides with decreasing
> >remaining oil volume just before oil pressure warning triggered?)
> >
> >- Underside of engine area heavily dripping large volumes of oil.
> >Oil dripping from all over right side (FIF) of engine.
> >
> >- Removing the engine compartment cover, entire right side (FIF) of
> >engine compartment heavily coated in oil, with spray concentrated to
> >forward portion of engine compartment. Appeared to indicate a high
> >pressure, high volume spray of oil.
> >
> >- Hard to determine the source of oil with the engine not running and
> >given the copious oil everywhere, but my guess is oil was coming from
> >the oil filter area.
> >
> >- Oil filter was still threaded firmly to oil cooler. Removing the
> >oil filter did not reveal any obvious splits in filter. Filter still
> >full of oil. Dipping my finger into filter, the oil did not feel
> >gritty or otherwise contaminated. Oil temp at failure could be
> >described as luke warm.
> >
> >- No obvious holes in the case under filter area were visible.
> >
> >- I did not not check oil level at the dipstick, as I had parked on a
> >steep downgrade and the dipstick reading would be wildly inaccurate.
> >
> >- Left side of the engine compartment, and rear of engine (injection
> >pump, timing belt) completely unaffected by oil spray. One modest
> >sized drip on the alternator, one small spot on the battery.
> >
> >History:
> >--------
> >Less than 10,000 miles on rebuild. Oil and filter changed every 3000
> >miles or less. Oil and filter changed less than 500 miles ago.
> >Bosch or Mann oil filters and Castrol GTX 20/50 oil used exclusively.
> >Engine has run smooth, strong, and cool since purchased last
> >February. No noticeable leaks in the filter area previously. Engine
> >has consumed little oil since purchase, averaging less than 1 litre
> >added between oil changes. Most of between-change oil loss due to
> >(likely) rear main seal leak, which lightly spots driveway, dirties
> >transmission/motor mating area, and speckles rear hatch with oil
> >droplets on highway speed drives. Engine will push bus to over 65
> >mph, and can cruise at 65 mph on level ground comfortably. I always
> >cruise no faster than 62 mph, usually a little slower. I never push
> >the bus up hills, preferring to fall back to either 38 mph in 3rd or
> >22 mph in 2nd to avoid labouring the motor. (Remember, this is a
> >diesel transmission, so gearing is lower than in gas-powered
> >vanagons).
>
> --
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Tobin Copley Bowen Island, BC, Canada 49deg 23'N-123deg 19'W
>
> '82 Westfalia 1.6L NA diesel ("Stinky")
> '97 son Russell =============
> '99 daughter Margaret /_| |_L| |__|:| clatter
> 1995: 'Round US, Mexico, Canada 15,000 mi {. .| clatter!
> 1996: Vancouver to Inuvik, NWT 7,400 km ~-()-==----()-~
> Previous buses: '76 westy deluxe (Daisy), '76 westy standard (Mango)
> http://www.sfu.ca/~tcopley/vw/
|