Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 10:16:39 -0700
Reply-To: Mark Drillock <drillock@EARTHLINK.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Mark Drillock <drillock@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: YIKE! Lost 3 qts oil... [follow-up]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I sure would like to have seen the oil pressure relief valve that was
plugged in the closed position. The design makes it much more likely to
plug open resulting in low pressure. In any case, the relief valve is
not in the oil pump itself but in the oil pickup assembly. VW only sells
the combined unit (about $300) but Ken W. is now selling the pickup
piece alone new for $85.
Mark
Tobin Copley wrote:
>
> As promised, here's the follow-up to my September 05 post regarding
> the spectacular oil loss in my 1982 vanagon westy with a stock 1.6 L
> normally aspirated motor. The original post with a description of
> the problem is attached below.
>
> The immediate diagnosis was that the seal where the oil cooler mates
> with the engine block had failed. This was a quick and cheap
> replacement. During the replacement, my mechanic observed that a
> fair amount of silicone seal had been used to seal the gasket, which
> possibly contributed to the failure. He reinstalled everything, and
> got 100 feet into the test drive when the oil filter gasket popped
> out and my bus dumped another 3 litres of oil along the street
> outside his shop (and across a busy intersection on a steep hill).
> He refilled with oil, new filter, and carefully drove back to the
> shop without further incident.
>
> Next he dropped the oil pan, removed the oil pump, and found the oil
> pressure relief valve stuck, which wasn't permitting the oil to
> recirculate--the oil pump just pumped up the oil to about a kazillion
> psi, which blew the weakest point downstream to bits.
>
> The pressure relief valve was clogged up with bits of silicone seal
> and assorted small metal frags including some small chunks of brass.
> All the metal together would not have been enough to cover the
> fingernail of his pinky. Given that the engine had been rebuilt less
> than 10,000 miles before, some metal bits are to be expected, and he
> wasn't particularly concerned about it. The silcone seal was likely
> the real culprit here, as it formed plugs beautifully. The valve was
> very jammed up, and it took him well over an hour to free it up and
> get it nice and smooth and reassure himself it wouldn't jam again.
> The labour wasn't cheap, but it's still a hell of a lot cheaper than
> a new pump!
>
> My mechanic also put in lighter weight (15w40) oil for the winter.
> It seems to have slightly (but noticeably) more noise from the valve
> train now, and I'll keep an eye on it and likely bring it in to have
> the lash checked just as a precaution. Maybe I'm just overly picky.
> Engine still runs smooth, good power (for a 1.6L diesel!), nice idle,
> and even power up the band.
>
> The towing company sent a large flat bed tow truck on the ferry to
> get my broken bus off the Island, so I had to pay the commercial rate
> for an overlength and overheight vehicle. I'm trying to get that
> cost back from my towing assistance club, since I asked that they
> send the smallest truck they had. We'll see.
>
> All told, towing and mechanics bills came to over CDN$600.00
> (USD$400.00). Ugh. Stinky and I had a talk when we got home. The
> bus has been great since I bought it in February--aside from the
> usual extra maintenance expected with any newly-acquired used
> vehicle--but this internal engine stuff freaked me out. I do hope
> this is the end of it, since everyone in the family loves the bus and
> we are looking forward to taking a trip down to Baja with it this
> February.
>
> Anyway, listee guesses were (in order of response):
>
> Oil filter O-ring: Nate Wall, Bulley,
> Blown oil galley plug: Nate Wall, Kelley McDaniel, Jim Arnott
> Oil filter itself: Gary San Diego, Alistair Bell
> Oil filter mount assy gasket:Gary San Diego, Nate Wall
> Gen. oil filter/cooler area: Stuart MacMillan, Mark Drillock
> Gunked oil breather housing: Per Lindgren
> Split oil pressure sender: Maynard Southard
>
> Hope you all keep your oil where it belongs!
>
> T.
>
> At 10:54 AM -0700 9/5/00, Tobin Copley wrote:
> >Hi gang,
> >
> >Blew something in my diesel vanagon yesterday, and lost nearly all
> >our oil in just a few seconds, coating the engine compartment with
> >oil spray, and leaving a 200m trail of oil down the road in the
> >process.
> >
> >I'm getting a tow truck over to the island here this afternoon, and
> >I'll have my mechanic on the mainland look at it and give me a
> >diagnosis. If any of you clever people want to take a stab at
> >guessing the problem, I'll post the names of the guessers with the
> >follow-up (if you want).
> >
> >I'll post a follow-up on this when the problem has been identified.
> >Hopefully,the following description, when combined with the
> >follow-up, may help someone out in the future.
> >
> >A description of the problem follows. (For the record, I'm hoping
> >it's a problem with--or related to--the oil cooler).
> >
> >Vehicle:
> >--------
> >1982 vanagon westy, 1.6l NA DIESEL engine, <10K miles on engine
> >rebuild. Castrol GTX 20/50 dino oil, last oil and filter change 500
> >miles ago.
> >
> >The failure:
> >------------
> >Following a cold start in 70 degree F ambient air temperature, drove
> >up a steep hill at moderate load (2nd gear @ 20 mph). During the
> >upshift to 3rd gear at the crest of the hill, oil light blinked on of
> >1/4 second, went out for a little less than 1 second, then came on
> >and stayed on. I turned off the engine less than 3 seconds after
> >first blink of oil light. No untoward engine noises were heard at
> >any point, although valve clatter was *perhaps* a little louder than
> >usual while the engine was shutting down. No bangs, clunks,
> >hammering, lurches, power loss, or any other "expensive" symptoms.
> >
> >After rolling to a rest at the side of the road (less than 1/4 mile
> >from starting point), I saw the following:
> >
> >- Dense trail of oil on road heading back over the crest of the hill
> >(walking back home later showed oil trail started about 50 yds from
> >my driveway, but without a pronounced starting splat or anything.
> >Volume of oil loss along trail appeared to start heavy and decrease
> >in volume only in last 1/3 of trail--coincides with decreasing
> >remaining oil volume just before oil pressure warning triggered?)
> >
> >- Underside of engine area heavily dripping large volumes of oil.
> >Oil dripping from all over right side (FIF) of engine.
> >
> >- Removing the engine compartment cover, entire right side (FIF) of
> >engine compartment heavily coated in oil, with spray concentrated to
> >forward portion of engine compartment. Appeared to indicate a high
> >pressure, high volume spray of oil.
> >
> >- Hard to determine the source of oil with the engine not running and
> >given the copious oil everywhere, but my guess is oil was coming from
> >the oil filter area.
> >
> >- Oil filter was still threaded firmly to oil cooler. Removing the
> >oil filter did not reveal any obvious splits in filter. Filter still
> >full of oil. Dipping my finger into filter, the oil did not feel
> >gritty or otherwise contaminated. Oil temp at failure could be
> >described as luke warm.
> >
> >- No obvious holes in the case under filter area were visible.
> >
> >- I did not not check oil level at the dipstick, as I had parked on a
> >steep downgrade and the dipstick reading would be wildly inaccurate.
> >
> >- Left side of the engine compartment, and rear of engine (injection
> >pump, timing belt) completely unaffected by oil spray. One modest
> >sized drip on the alternator, one small spot on the battery.
> >
> >History:
> >--------
> >Less than 10,000 miles on rebuild. Oil and filter changed every 3000
> >miles or less. Oil and filter changed less than 500 miles ago.
> >Bosch or Mann oil filters and Castrol GTX 20/50 oil used exclusively.
> >Engine has run smooth, strong, and cool since purchased last
> >February. No noticeable leaks in the filter area previously. Engine
> >has consumed little oil since purchase, averaging less than 1 litre
> >added between oil changes. Most of between-change oil loss due to
> >(likely) rear main seal leak, which lightly spots driveway, dirties
> >transmission/motor mating area, and speckles rear hatch with oil
> >droplets on highway speed drives. Engine will push bus to over 65
> >mph, and can cruise at 65 mph on level ground comfortably. I always
> >cruise no faster than 62 mph, usually a little slower. I never push
> >the bus up hills, preferring to fall back to either 38 mph in 3rd or
> >22 mph in 2nd to avoid labouring the motor. (Remember, this is a
> >diesel transmission, so gearing is lower than in gas-powered
> >vanagons).
>
> --
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Tobin Copley Bowen Island, BC, Canada 49deg 23'N-123deg 19'W
>
> '82 Westfalia 1.6L NA diesel ("Stinky")
> '97 son Russell =============
> '99 daughter Margaret /_| |_L| |__|:| clatter
> 1995: 'Round US, Mexico, Canada 15,000 mi {. .| clatter!
> 1996: Vancouver to Inuvik, NWT 7,400 km ~-()-==----()-~
> Previous buses: '76 westy deluxe (Daisy), '76 westy standard (Mango)
> http://www.sfu.ca/~tcopley/vw/
| 
