Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 16:44:12 -0500
Reply-To: "James S. Cohen" <jscohen@SPRYNET.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: "James S. Cohen" <jscohen@SPRYNET.COM>
Subject: Re: Halon Extinguishers, etc.
In-Reply-To: <008701c04c05$c315b0e0$f125a2d1@wd1000086onem>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
>
>Well, we weren't talking curtains...
I thought the thread started with a general discussion about fire
extinguishers, NOT just auto systems. But either way, there is REAL
good info coming out of this.
>We were discussing engine fires that occur while you are driving.
>We were talking about an automatic Halon system that would discharge in the
>engine compartment while you are driving.
I don't think this is a good idea. Too many things can go wrong with
an automatic system INCLUDING accidental discharge. OR even no
discharge when there is a fire.
It would seem the alarm idea with a MANUAL extinguish system would be
the way to go. So, the alarm would go off, you'd check in the mirror
see flames, then hit a button or valve to turn on the extinguisher
system.
>extingusher... otherwise the choice of Halon in order to avert corrosion
>will seem mighty foolish as you sit there on the side of the road and watch
>your Vanagon go up in a ball of flames. :(
Yeah, again, it's hard to justify being UNDER prepared. Both should
be available.
>The reformulated Halon is available at Marine stores like West Marine.
>Beware the automatic valved ones... I noticed that the West Marine one will
>discharge at about 175 degrees.... I have measured engine compartment
>temperatures at about 160 in the desert in the summer... 15 degress does not
>seem like enough margin to me.... false discharges likely.
To me, there seems like too much can go wrong with an auto system.
However, I guess since there is little consequence from an accidental
discharge, it can't hurt.
> It didn't
>have a dial gauge but the stupid button that sticks out and you're
>supposed to push in monthly to test. Well that only works if it
>>doesn't lose it's gas between TESTS!!
>
>Best to get the fire extinghishers with the pressure gauge... then you can
>see if it still has pressure or not... even then they should be serviced
>every few years because the powder can settle to the bottom and cake up such
>that it doesn't come out when you want it to...
NOW you tell me!! ;) I had to learn that the hard way :( But I did
learn. One day when I was discussing this issue with Derek Drew we
looked at his extinguishers. His had the kind with the button you're
supposed to push. I pushed it in and while it came back out it seemed
weak. He thought it was fine, I told him I doubted it, and to prove
the point I FIRED IT OFF. To his HORROR NOTHING CAME OUT!!!!
Cheap extinguishers are not worth the money. Gives a false sense of security.
>I buy my fire extinghishers (house and auto) at the local shop that
>specializes in them (avoid Wal-Mart, etc as they only carry the cheepies
>that are not rechargeable)... they also do the recharging and check seals at
>the same time.
>And date them so you know how long it has been since last serviced.
THIS IS REALLY GOOD ADVICE!! I have bought mine at Wal-Mart, but why
be cheap about something SO important? Spend more and cry ONCE. For
home, garage, and Vanagon.I realize that I shouldn't be trying to do
this the cheap way.
What kind of shop is that? Is it a specific "Fire Extinguisher" shop?
What should I look for in the Yellow Pages?
>
>>The fuel pump cut-off is less useful since the FP cuts out when you
>>turn off the ignition.
>
>That assumes you are 1) aware there is a fire back there in the engine
>compartment... most reports I've read on the list say they were not aware of
>it for quite some time... and 2) that you think to turn of the ignition in a
>panic situation where you are trying to get to the side of the road....
>seconds are crutial...
I think it's pretty likely that one will turn off the ignition. But
even so, the complications of an AUTO FP cut off are daunting. Hmmm
although I could imagine looping the 12V wire to the FP through the
engine compartment so that any fire would burn it in half and cut the
power to the FP.
>Also, we were talking an automatic Halon discharge... by the time you get to
>the side of the road the Halon could have been blown out of the engine
>compartment and a flare up in progress as the fuel pump continues to feed
>the fire.
So a something would have to be worked so that when the Auto system
discharges it automatically cuts the power to the FP. I can see that
with the alarm system as well.
> >And, it would be hard to OVER protect yourself by carrying several
>extinguishers. I carry two bigger ones and a little one for a kitchen
>fire.
What kind do you carry?
The cheaper Wal-Mart ABC with a gauge. But I'm rethinking all of
this. I also carry a tiny one for kitchen fires,and the same in my
Corrado.
What is your recommendation?
Fires have happened in Corrados too. My friend's '91 burned up
because of bad fuel lines (VW has recalled them to fix the problem).
He saw the fire start, pulled over, and shut off the ignition. BUT
the Corrados of that year (G60) have something called a FP Afterrun
System that KEEPS PUMPING GAS AFTER THE IGNITION IS SHUT OFF!!!!! Car
went up in flames!
Tough way to learn the lesson.
Good advice Bill
Thanks
James
