Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 21:46:22 -0800
Reply-To: David Marshall <vanagon@VOLKSWAGEN.ORG>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: David Marshall <vanagon@VOLKSWAGEN.ORG>
Subject: Re: Suburu/Golf debate
In-Reply-To: <F216B3Ao34ZlEO1XQC80000839e@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Oh boy! A debate - I love these! I’ll try to keep it under a 1000 words!
:)
As many of you may already know I started my home based business, Fast
Forward, around the Volkswagen and Audi Inline Four Cylinder conversion. As
many of you may not know as of January 1st we are now selling the KEP parts
for the Subaru conversion - basically because most people have already
talked themselves into it! I have driven both motors and both kits have
their pros and cons. My first choice is still the inline engines, but the
Subaru isn't bad.
The inline offers many advantages. We don't recommend anything under 1.8L
is displacement. We sell more kits that will have 1.8L engines that 2.0L
engine about a 3:1 ratio - so I think more people out there are looking for
INEXPENSIVE and RELIABLE engines than anything else.
VIBRATION I have heard a lot of people say that the I4s are prone to
vibration. I think the 50-degree kits are prone to vibration due to the
lack of choice in motor mounts. We mount our engines at a 15-degree angle
using rubber mounts from the Audi 80 in the same configuration that Audi
still uses in the A4 Sedan. Our Syncro has a 268-degree cam installed in
it, which makes the 850-RPM idle a little bumpy. Looking at the engine at
idle you can see it move around a little. Sitting in the driver seat you
would never know the engine is one due to the complete lack of vibration -
even in the back seat everything is fine. There are also none of the
3000ish RPM vibrations that plagued the Eurospec conversion. So lack of
smoothness is not an issue with our I4 kits.
POWER Both the 1.8L and 2.0L engines offer respectable power outputs at
the RPMs where the original wasserboxer peaks are. Meaning that the
transmission gear ratios are perfectly matched to the inline four-cylinder
engines. All I4 engines have more horsepower than the 2.1 boxer engines and
almost as much torque (3% less in the 1.8L). This is the main reason why
people go for the 1.8L engine as it most closely matches the 2.1 for power.
Subaru engines are designed to make their power at the higher mid 4000-RPM
range. For people wanting more power a 2.0L can be upped to a very reliable
130 to 135hp with the installation of a simple camshaft. This will push the
HP and torque peak up a few hundred RPM but not to the extent of the Subaru
engines. The 130hp 260 cams that we sell are C.A.R.B. legal.
ENGINE POWER (HP) TORQUE (FT/LBS)
1.9 WBX 82@4800 105@2600 83-85 VAN
2.1 WBX 90@4800 117@3200 86-92 VAN
1.8 I4 105@5400 114@3800 DIGIFANT
2.0 I4 115@5400 122@3200 CIS-Motronic
2.2 Legacy 130@5600 137@4400 OBD-1 Subaru
CALIFORNIA LEGAL *Both* the Subaru engine (OBD-1 only) and ALL the VW I4
engines are C.A.R.B. legal. In order for both engines to be C.A.R.B. legal
a few simple rules have to be followed.
- The engine must come from a car as old or newer than the Vanagon you are
installing it into.
- The engine must be from a California legal car.
- All emission equipment MUST be used.
- All engine warning lights and electronics must be used.
After the engine is installed in your Vanagon you must take it to a referee
station where you will have your Vanagon reclassified as the donor car and
you will have to pass emission regulations the same way the donor car would
have to from that point on.
COST Inline Four cylinder engines are inexpensive and plentiful. The
1.8L in our 84 Westie cost us $250 USD for the complete engine. 2.0L Audi
engines can be had for $500 USD for a complete engine. Campbell Nelson in
WA state quotes $900 USD for an Audi 2L and $600 USD for a VW 1.8L. 2.2L
Legacy motors are $1300 USD.
MECHANIC FRIENDLY The inline four-cylinder engines are VW mechanic
friendly - the local VW dealer doesn't mind working on our kits as they can
plug their VAG 1552 computer into the engine and diagnose any problems with
it. They have told me they will not work on a Subaru equipped Vanagon that
we convert. The Subaru dealer has the same concern. Lots of private
mechanics are very experienced with the Golf and Jetta motors and they are
very easily trouble-shooted even when installed in a Vanagon. Subaru
mechanics are less common, at least in this area of the country. If you are
going to install a Subaru engine you will be the one maintaining it!
GROUND CLEARANCE The I4 engines have as much ground clearance as a boxer
engine. In fact Syncro owners can re-install their rear skid plate in its
original position. The Subaru engine will result in a 4 to 5" loss in
ground clearance due to the low-slung oil pan and exhaust system. Last work
from KEP is they are still working on the oil pan problem, but have yet to
really tackle the exhaust problem.
ENGINE COVER The I4 kit *DOES* require an engine cover modification -
with the 1.8L and 2.0L Audi engines this is a 2.5 to 3" box that you have to
put on top of your cover in order to clear the intake manifold and throttle
valve. Some people have gotten this down to 2" by modifying the throttle
linkage on the throttle valve. The BIGGEST issue people have with this is
the bed in the back of their Weekender or Westfalia. NO PROBLEM! We stock
bed hinges that lift the bed 4" in the bed position and 0" in the seat
position. No lump in the mattress, no cutting of the mattress - instead a
nice, usually plywood, false floor can be built enabling you to have a hard
surface to set the mattress on and provide much needed additional storage
for blankets which you don't need until you fold down your seat! Subaru -
no deck lid mods are required, which is nice!
WIRING If you feel you can't do the wiring for you engine - we can do it
for you. Volkswagen or Subaru!
As I said in the introduction to this email, we do sell both conversion kits
and they both have their merits and problems. The biggest fault of the I4
conversion kit is the engine cover modification. The biggest fault of the
Subaru conversion kit is the low oil pan and exhaust system. ALL engine
conversions present a trade off of some sort - there is no exception to that
rule!
David Marshall
Fast Forward Autobahn Sport Tuning
4356 Quesnel Hixon Road
Quesnel BC Canada V2J 6Z3
mailto:info@fastforward.ca http://www.fastforward.ca
Phone: (250) 992 7775 FAX: (250) 992 1160
• Vanagon Accessories and Engine Conversions
• Transporter, Unimog and Iltis Sales
• European Lighting for most Audi and Volkswagen models
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com]On Behalf
Of phil stanhope
Sent: January 3, 2001 7:46 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Suburu/Golf debate
Does any one know which is the better of the two conversions? The VW golf
inline 4 motor probably has a better re-sale value(same brand). The Suburu
is more similar to the pancake style waserboxer, but the six feet of
electronic wiring looks like a nightmare.
I could be totally wrong on the suburu.
Phil
84' Westy
145K miles with no coolant leak YET!
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