Date:         Sun, 14 Jan 2001 11:49:46 -0800
Reply-To:     "MOST,DAVID" <most@UCLA.EDU>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         "MOST,DAVID" <most@UCLA.EDU>
Subject:      UPDATE: RE: Need help with odd problem (SOLVED)
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Once again, this list has saved the day.  For the benefit of future
readers, I've included the original symptoms below.  I forgot to mention
that the idle was oscillating a bit between about 800 and 1100, and though
it was occuring intermittently, it had been happening relatively more
often as of late.

I received many helpful ideas from Ken, Darrell, Joel, and Robert (you'd
think that I would have figured all of this out after having been on the
list for 5 1/2 years).  I replaced the temp II sensor, and though I only
took it for a short test drive (more on that in a moment), the difference
was immediately noticable.  The idle was very stable at 850, there were no
hesitations, and the engine felt more powerful.  I only took it for a 3
minute drive....not because I didn't want to go more, but because in my
excitement, I started driving too quickly (below the speed limit, but too
much given the black ice) and skidded into a snow bank head first.  It
made a nice thud, but it seems that the bumper took most of the impact
(meaning I noticed no mark or damage to anything including the bumper).  I
was laughing at myself a bit as I am usually a very conservative driver
(with cars honking at me for driving ONLY the speed limit).  But, the
extra power was too surprising.  Maybe I was just imagining extra power,
the lack of hesitation, stalling, and steady idle were clearly evident.

Therfore, I want to jump on the bandwagon of telling everyone to suspect
the temp II sensor and spend the few minutes and $15 to replace the sensor
and o-ring (I bought both at the sort of dealer in San Bernadino....$1.60
for the little rubber o-ring).  The date code on the old sensor was 12/86
and the engine has 164k.  And, of course, don't get too excited when your
problem is solved.

AFter skidding, I decided to turn around and drive home, so I haven't
tested it when the engine is fully warm yet.  I'll report back on that
matter shortly.  Thanks again to those who suggested ideas and guided me
through my questions.

David


-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM]On Behalf
Of MOST,DAVID
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 11:29 AM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Need help with odd problem


I've read the discussion of hiccups and hesitations over the years, but
the problem with my '87 is not familiar to me.

I will describe the problem in a non-technical fashion.  The engine starts
and idles fine.  During the first couple of minutes of driving, if I come
to a complete stop (say for a stop sign) or slow down to make a turn
and downshift and then try to resume driving, I
press the gas(air) pedal and nothing happens.  That is, the engine just
continues to idle.  Usually, after a few seconds, the engine starts to
sputter as if it's slowly starting to react to the pedal being pressed,
and once it catches, everything is normal.  In fact, all systems will
operate well for the rest of the day.

A little more information might help, so here are some details.  First,
this only happens when the engine is cold.  Second, if I were to start it
cold and not have to stop for a few minutes, the problem would not present
itself.  Third, when the problem happens, 99% of the time it only
happens once during thost first couple of minutes of driving.  Finally, I
was able to live with the problem until yesterday.
I was in the process of moving from one house to another with a fullly
loaded vanagon, so it would not have been an ideal time to play with the
engine.  However, this time the problem was worse.  I slowed down while
in 3rd gear to make a turn, pressed the clutch to downshift into 2nd
during the turn, pressed the gas pedal and nothing.  This time, it didn't
catch after a few seconds.  I was pointed uphill, so I put on the brake
turned off the engine, and tried to start it again.  It just cranked, but
it wouldn't start.  So, I was stuck.  Fortunately, I was able to roll
backwards on to the road which I had been on, and point myself down the
hill on that road.  I thenn rolled forward, popped the clutch in 2nd gear,
and it started right up.  I then was able to drive without incident.  Had
I not had the convenient hill possibilities, I'm not sure what I would
have done.

Does anyone have any ideas what might be causing this problem?  I little
hesitation during the first couple of minutes might be something that I
could deal with, but it appears now that I could get stuck.

Thanks for the help.

David (now in Crestline, CA)