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Date:         Thu, 8 Mar 2001 07:26:29 -0800
Reply-To:     Mark Keller <kelphoto@ISLANDNET.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Mark Keller <kelphoto@ISLANDNET.COM>
Subject:      O2 Sensor Replacment options
Comments: To: busdepot@email.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Ron,

Thanks for your service to the Vanagon and VW owners. I received your email regarding the part number I listed for a Universal Bosch three wire sensor and have attached it below. My primary interest in the O2 sensor topic is peace of mind and reliability for Vanagon owners. I'm a fair guy, and a good mechanic.

I don't feel the use of the Bosch 13913 sensor, listed as a Ford replacement by you and confirmed by the Bosch Buyer's guide, is necessarily a compromise. I do feel that my experience, which was a heater short to the sensor is a reason to question the function and operational design of the Ford sensor.

I spoke with Mike C. at the Bosch technical support hotline yesterday regarding this issue. His response was essentially that the heaters could be different, as in some heaters are stronger and could be made of different materials. He referred me to a snail mail Product Manager address:

AM\AMA2 Product Manager, R Bosch Corporation, PO Box 4601, Carol Stream, IL 60197-4601

To address the specific heating range and element composition. Unfortunately, I don't have the time currently to continue research of this, but am posting the information in case you do.

Regarding the part number I listed WOT 21-156-8300, I called the Bow Wow Distributor, and it is a Beck Arnley number, for a universal three wire oxygen sensor. My apologies for any confusion.

Mike C said that the Vanagon Specific O2 sensor #13931, has a service life of 60,000 miles. It would appear from posts that people consider the sensor bad or it in fact goes bad long before 60K, He further stated that Bosch doesn't support the the idea or warranty of the Ford sensors being used on the Vanagon. So the letter from a Bosch Distributor you referred may imply a functional equality of the O2 sensor element, it does not guarantee a functional identical unit.

I did not bring up the issue of the Bosch letter your refer to below to Mike C. But I bring it up now as it could appear to some readers as a implied approval of the Ford sensor as a substitute for the Vanagon specific sensor that Bosch makes.

So my conclusion is that for me a Vanagon specific O2 sensor is a better choice for peace of mind.

Sincerely,

Mark Keller 91 Carat Cowichan Bay, B.C.

Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 13:27:20 -0500 From: The Bus Depot <busdepot@EMAIL.COM> Subject: Re: O2 Sensors

> I had a Bosch generic three wire O2 sensor go bad after it was a month > old. The Bosch representative said it was the wrong generic three wire > sensor. Well I emailed the list with this bit of trivia, and heard back > that the Bus Depot $40 Bosch three wire sensor I purchased was > "functionally identical" to the Bosch $120 Cdn generic three wire > sensor.

It is. I have it in writing from our U.S. Bosch distributor, and it is confirmed by the fact that literally hundreds of other list members and customers are using them as I write this (including myself in my own '89 Westy). This is why listmembers responded to you that it is indeed functionally identical. The reason that the representative said that it is the "wrong" sensor is that it has a Ford-style connector on the end - so he thinks it's a sensor for a Ford. He probably looked in his books, saw this Ford application and no VW application, and concluded that it was the "wrong" one for a VW. But as per our Bosch distributor, if you disregard the shape of the connector, electrically it's the same as the VW one.

> My would only act up at first during wet conditions. I even had the little splash shield > installed.

Sounds likely that water was getting into the circuit, perhaps at the splice. This would have royally screwed up the 02 sensor's readings.

> My only guess is that the Bosch generic three wire sensor listed for the > Vanagon, incorporates some type of waterproofing or corrosion resistance > due to the sensor's placement on the vehicle.

Actually, no. Only the shape of the connecting plug is different; no difference in water-resistance.

> The Vanagon specific Bosch generic three wire sensor part number is > 21-156-8300. I paid $126 CDN, or approx. $85 US.

According to the Bosch distributor, that is not a Bosch part number at all. In fact it's not even in the numbering format that Bosch uses for 02 sensors as a category. Nor is it a VW part number. Perhaps it is the unique stock number of the particular dealer from whom you bought the part.

I think you're reading too much into your experience. My guess is that somehow moisture got trapped into the electrical connection to your 02 sensor, causing either premature failure or a false reading. The more expensive unit that the Canadian dealer sold you is probably a suitable replacement, so it solved your problem. But replacing it with another $39 sensor and repairing the connection would also have solved your problem. In fact, repairing the connection and reinstalling the same sensor might even have worked, as it is possible that the unit would have operated properly once the source of the moisture was eliminated.

- Ron Salmon The Bus Depot, Inc. www.busdepot.com (215) 234-VWVW

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