Date:         Wed, 28 Mar 2001 14:25:09 -0600
Reply-To:     Wade Ebert <monster51@SPRINGNET1.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Wade Ebert <monster51@SPRINGNET1.COM>
Subject:      Re: Simpler Alternative to welding body panels
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I run a collision repair shop in Illinois. While some of my colleagues sing
the praises of these products, I still weld everything that was welded from
the factory with exactly the same # of welds in exactly the same places. The
vehicle is an energy absorbtion device that happens to haul human cargo at
80 mph. with opposing traffic hauling ass 6 inches off of the side mirror.
When the auto manufacturers use adhesives in structural applications so will
I. It is not my job nor my place to reengineer something that some massive
corporation spent huge R&D money on and then crash tested. I will not play
dice with others' lives for the sake of a few bucks in saved labor or the
interests of some insurance jackass who bears none of the liability for what
I do.

Glue these panels at your own risk. Don't think for a minute that 3M or any
other adhesive manufacturer would provide your legal defense. You don't
blame the wreck on the train, but if that train just happened to be cobbled
back together in a manner that the manufacturer never intended, Attorneys
hire guys like me to do analyses of the failed repair methods so they may
pin the liability exactly where it belongs. Better pay up those umbrella
policies kids, it's fixin' to storm.

Wade Ebert
American Auto Body
Springfield IL

87 Westy



----- Original Message -----
From: Stuart MacMillan <macmillan@HOME.COM>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: Simpler Alternative to welding body panels


> My work was done by a top rated local Collision One center that
> specializes in BMW and Mercedes.
>
> You just haven't hit anything yet!  My point is valid, these adhesives
> provide no structural strength whatsoever, they should only be used in
> non-structural applications.
>
>
> CTONLINE@webtv.net wrote:
> >
> > Stuart,
> > If the glued panels failed it was probably due to one of two different
> > things.
> > (1) improperly prepared mating surfaces
> > (2) wrong, or cheap adhesive.
> > Ford Iknow for a fact has been using a Body panel adhesive on their
> > doors and quarter panels for at least 10 years.
> > I have used 3-M body panel adhesive on the front cowel panels of Mack
> > trucks for at least that long, with no failures, ever.
> > It all depends on who's doing the work, and how and what's applied.
>
> --
> Stuart MacMillan
> Seattle
>
> '84 Vanagon Westfalia w/2.1
> '65 MGB (Daily driver since 1969)
> '74 MGB GT (Restoring sloooowly)
>
> Assisting on Restoration (and spending OPM):
> '72 MGB GT (Daughter's)
> '64 MGB (Son's)
>
> Stripped and gone but their parts live on:
> '68 MGB, '73 MGB, '67 MGB GT