Date:         Mon, 16 Apr 2001 17:00:21 -0000
Reply-To:     Mike Finkbiner <mike_l_f@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Mike Finkbiner <mike_l_f@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: 15 inch wheels (Long - and probably more involved than it
              needs to be)
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Mike -

Much of what you say is worth considering, but the biggest problem  owners
face when they want to buy tires is that many dealers will put standard
passenger tires on their van.  Thats why I keep bringing up load range and
pressure.

You are a bit out of date on load range, I'm afraid.  The old BCD or ply
rating is still around, but all modern tires have a numeric load rating
indicating their capacity at maximum pressure.  The door sticker on my '87
Westy for example says 205/70R14 97 30 psi Front, 40 psi Rear.

If you look at the load range section on this page -

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/speed.htm

You will see that 97 translates to a carrying capacity of 1609 lbs.  Picking
the most popular all-season 205/70R14 from Tire Rack's page, the Bridgestone
S402 it has a load rating of only 93, 1433 lbs, and a max pressure of only
35 psi, so it isn't suitable for a Westy.

Robert Lilley found an interesting tire in the Pirelli P6000 he mentioned,
but it is only available in 15".   And - only one, the 215/65 is available
with a high enough load rating, 102. It has a max pressure of 50 psi and is
described as Reinforced .

In my opinion, that tire would still not be a good choice for people who
drive on rough or primitive roads, even if it had a suitable tread design,
because it has a short sidewall and would have a harder time dealing with
the occasional rock, rut or water bar.  Your point about a more durable
sidewall is important, but is generally covered by purchasing one with a
high enough load rating, because it will have a stronger sidewall than a
standard passenger car tire, no matter how many plies it has.

If you are going to get serious about bad roads, of course, you want to buy
a tire like the BFGs you mention.  They are designed to handle rougher
conditions.

But - the closer we get to real all-terrain tires, the more Andrew
Grebneff's point about handling applies.  A tall stiff sidewall and more
aggressive tread design generally does not give as good traction on smooth
pavement as a short, more pliable sidewall and more closed tread design.

The basic point I want people to remember when they are looking for tires is
that the Vanagon is a truck.  It needs tires capable of handling a heavy
load and high pressure.  Only after you accept that can you think about the
type of driving you are going to be doing, and choose something reasonable
from those that fit the first criteria.

Whatever you do, it won't be the best all the time.  Just make an informed
compromise and deal with it.

I just wish I didn't keep seeing vans with tires that are designed for
lighter loads and lower pressures than they need.  It isn't safe!

- Mike

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Date:    Sun, 15 Apr 2001 21:20:54 -0700
From:    Michael Edwards <mpedwards@LYCOS.COM>
Subject: Re: 15 inch wheels

--Actually, the 103 is the service description for the tires. 103 denotes
passenger radial.  The load rating is actually a B,C,D, etc..., translating
into 4ply,6ply,8ply respectively.  As this rating system was devised when
the belting of tires was cotton, todays ratings may not actually correspond
to actual construction, only load carrying capacity. Hence, a load range C
tire may only have 4 actual plys on the tread and 2 on the sidewall (this
information is available on the side of the tire, just do the math).  In a
14" wheel, most
brands do manufacture a 185 & 195 series in a load range C, however tread is
usually aggressive.  Other important considerations are the temperature
(A,B,C rating) and traction ratings (A,B,C) and the treadwear ratings (this
is confusing because there is no govt regulation or standard for this, so be
wary of a super high treadwear rating on any tire with a high traction
rating, as higher traction ratings usually denote softer rubber compound to
adhere to the
road, but wear considerably faster).
With regards to suitable tires for rough roads, a taller sidewall, while
providing more cushion for impact, may not withstand punctures from jagged
rocks/branches etc if the sidewall is only a single ply (as are many B load
rated tires).  For this, it is important to consider not only the load
rating, , knowledge, BFG all-terrains load
range C are one brand which have a three ply sidewall (even says
Triple-Guard, I think) and they are manufactured in 185/75R14C as well as
other sizes.  Although fairly new to the Vanagon scene, I have run these on
a little 2wd beater toyota which saw massive offroad trauma as a ranch
truck.  I have had even better luck with the Cooper Discoverer in the same
size---60k miles with no flats--same
vehicle, same conditions.
Good Luck
Mike
On Sun, 15 Apr 2001 16:15:36
Mike Finkbiner wrote:
>Andrew -
>
>Which tires are you thinking of, and what is their load rating?
>
>Also - when people are thinking about tires, they need to think seriously
> >about where they are going to be driving.  Low profile / short sidewall
> >tires are designed for smooth roads.  The more often you drive on gravel
>or >two-track (primitive) roads, the more you need to worry about tires
>that are >designed to stand up to slamming  over the occasional rock
>without damaging >the tire or wheel, and a taller sidewall helps a lot.
>
>My 2WD Westphalia has been up some pretty bad roads in the past, and will
> >again, hopefully soon (Spring is starting in Idaho)!  I wouldn't want the
> >sort of tires a Mercedes S-Class would generally wear.
>
>As with everything else in life - Choose, then pay the price.
>
>Mike Finkbiner
>'87 Westy wearing 195R-14 Kumho 852s - load range 103
>Moscow, Idaho
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