Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 17:41:29 -0700
Reply-To: Brian Cochran <rangerbrian@hotmail.com>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Brian Cochran <rangerbrian@hotmail.com>
Subject: oil pressure story in full: costs, thoughts, gripes,
etc. (quite long)
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Oil Pressure Woes and how they over-ran my life this winter.
The story
I have a Volkswagen vanagon westfalia. I’m a wilderness/park ranger and
needed a vehicle I could live out of during the summer. I didn’t like the
pick-up camper, since you have to go outside to get into the camper part,
and the cab cannot be utilized during the camp. The westfalia is perfect in
terms of layout and such. But asking it to go anywhere is something of a
challenge. Why anyone would own one of these expensive things is beyond me,
since the newest vanagon you can own is a ten year old van, the mileage is
17 mpg on average, and the list goes on from there with a variety of other
considerable problems. I am the seventh owner of my 84 van. I paid too
much for it, but I paid much less than the market average.
In january, I got a flickering oil pressure light. The previous may I
replaced a wire that was causing the oil pressure light to flicker, so I
figured, wrongly, that this time around I have real problems. I went out
and bought a VDO oil pressure gauge from the bus depot. The whole set up
ran me about $90. That’s a lot of money. That damn gauge as driven me
crazy ever since. If you have an 86 and up, with the dual pressure switch
system, don’t buy it. You have the warning system you need. Earlier van
owners can’t really tell if you have adequate pressure while moving, since
the .3 bar sender only tells you if your oil pressure is low at idle. It’s
nice to know where you oil pressure sits, but the work and cost of that
luxury isn’t worth it.
In my case, I’m not sure if I’ll ever know if I needed to do all what I did,
but it all started with the installation of the gauge, where, upon
installing it, I found that my new wire had, yet again, grounded out on the
engine tin, thus causing my oil pressure light to flicker. (so the light
wasn’t from a oil pressure prob)
On a long drive with my van up snoqualmie Pass to enjoy some skiing, came my
first real opportunity to observe what happens with my gauge on a drive: it
starts cold at about 80 psi, slowly falling as the engine warms. It stays
in the 50 psi (on the highway) for a while, but after about 7-10 miles the
pressure drops into the 30ies. My problem was that my pressure kept
dropping to about 20 psi at 55-60 on a hard climb uphill. When I exited
I-90 and rolled to a stop, there was a sickening red light lit solid and
steadfast on my dashboard. THe gauge seemed to be at zero. I had a
horrible day of skiing. I realized that this van of mine was going to ruin
my winter; and it did.
On the way down the hill and the end of the day, I took it easy. I let
gravity take control, and kept the speed down. After about 20 miles, the
pressure was down again, despite the “ease” of speed. At my exit, once
again, I had the red light. I had a flat drive on the remaining ten miles
back to home. I took it at the speed limit which was mostly 35 mph. After
a stretch, I saw that my oil pressure had recovered I wasn’t getting the
light anymore at idle. It was quite a puzzle, so I went to the list and
started a discussion which snow-balled into a debate of Robert Lilley vs.
Boston Bob Donalds on what causes what in oil pressure loss. Bob put his
money where his mouth was, in terms of betting on his theory that the
connecting rod bearings were worn, which was causing my oil pressure
problem. He offered free rods and bearings. You know, I’m not even sure
how much $ that saved me, but it was over $100. At the time, that was a lot
of money, the deal required me to buy his new heads, but I needed to run my
gaskets anyhow, since I was occasionally getting coolant spotting (about
70,000 on a VW rebuilt....213,000 on the van). So, I decided to do the
job. I had a garage, I had knowledge of engine rebuilds, from my corvair
days ten years back, and I had the time, with winter break up coming in Feb.
I trashed the $$ idea of a conversion, and told myself to yank the
engine, work fast, and get it done.
The work:
The hardest part about it was getting my parts from the depot. They had a
lot of employees out sick and some key parts were sent late and the wrong
stuff was sent, despite my instructions of WHAT set-up I had (2.1L in an 84
digijet). I had to buy things like: garage in a box with a floor jack, jack
stands, and a creeper. (made in china) I bought wheel chocks, which after
years of using 2x4’s, was a great purchase in peace of mind. (plus, they’re
small and great for roadside emergencies) I picked up some lumber to help
with my meager engine removal equipment.
I had to buy a bunch of special tools for the job (ring compressor, oil pump
puller, torque wrench, etc.) and I bought a flood light-much needed and a
bag of oil-dry for all the inevitable spills.
Unfortunately, bus depot and bus boys don’t customize their part kits like
clark’s corvair parts did. If they did this, they would save me so much
time. Plus, many of their parts kits don't’ even tell you what you are
getting. They should supply not just a gasket kit, but a “gotta have” kit,
which includes all those misc. items: those special oil pump nuts are an
example. (I just sealed mine with some leftover goo) Or those flywheel
bolts. You gotta yank the flywheel/torque plate to get to the main seal, AND
if you do that, you have to replace these high torque, spendy bolts. I
would have enjoyed having these parts ahead of time. There were more....
Bus depot really let me down on the AT gaskets. I ordered two things from
them, the AT pan gasket and filter, of which I only received the gasket($7),
and the AT gasket kit, which I thought would have everything else for $30.
I was still missing the Green, Big O-ring for joining the diff and the AT
(which I didn’t deal with) and the filter and associated gasket. I got
ripped off, because I had to go out and get the filter and associated
somewhere else. I never call the depot to yell at them about this mostly
because I had my hands full of work. But in my mind they still owe me at
least $10 for the lackings. OH!! Plus, where are the AT cooler o-rings??!
Who out there in vanagonland is going to pull the AT, replace all of the
gaskets, but not replace the AT cooler gaskets? Your van is 10-21 years
old. Gaskets get replaced, or you suffer. Ron, if you read this, put those
o-rings in the kits. Sorry to bash the depot, after all, who else can I run
to for those prices?
Remember, I just replace the rods, rod bearings, heads, oil pump, water
pump, most seals, fuel lines, and such.
I did not replace, or touch for that manner, the splitting of the
block/crank/cam/lifters/oil sump.
But, I did perform other jobs which definitely had a effect on the costs and
time invested, but they were worth it. These include, heater hoses, heater
valve, tranny gaskets and filter, and oil seal (which was leaking).
Total cost of this job for parts, shipping, tools, etc. about $2,260.00.
Plus three months of inconvenience, worry, shopping runs for parts, phone
calls and grease. The job itself took me about eleven days, but not all of
those days were full and I didn't have the RIGHT tool for the various jobs
much of the time. An engine stand would have easily saved me 1.5 days
alone, not to mention an engine hoist.
Of course when that part of this project was finished, I had virtually no
change in my oil pressure story. YIKES!!!! That still is horrible to hear
BUT!!!!! I do have an engine with new heads and rings and some bearings,
plus all those new parts!!!
I spoke to Boston Bob throughout this whole ordeal. He gave me great
support and was THE expert on the wasserboxer, I surely believe. However,
he was wrong on the rod theory. My rod bearings were still within the right
specs.
I found out a few things as this debacle. My oil pressure relief valve
was an aftermarket. I went through some dismay at the thought that this was
the problem all along, but the only difference was that the cold starting
pressure is now 60ish instead of the previous 80ish psi. The idle pressure
might be a 1-2 psi higher, but that’s all.
I spoke to VDO about their dual oil pressure sender finding that it lights
my dash light up at 7 psi instead of the 4 psi of the VW sender. If this is
correct, then my gauge is off by about 3 psi on the low side. This means
nothing (almost), BTW. That did make me feel better about the light, since
my pressure could still be in the VW specs.
The last three weeks.......
So, I’m broke. I have wasted most of my winter. So, I sent it off to a VW
shop for their opinion of the sluggish driving and lower gas mileage I’ve
been receiving. They confirmed my gauge accuracy with a +/- 3 or 4 psi,
ending my theories that it was my gauge all along that was misleading, but
they didn’t really drive the van for as long as I hope for. However, there
was an interesting problem: My cat convertor is clogged. Now, one is on
the way. But, I’m hoping that the new one will breathe the exhaust a little
better, thus cool my heads a little, thus cooling my oil, thus keeping me
happy.
Another happy moment was yesterday, my first day highway driving with my
20w-50 oil change, (I was running 10w-40 , new engine break-in reasons) and
it made a big difference! I’m running at 65 mph at 30-36 psi, which I
believe, is great. And there is no light at idle with the engine hot, even
the fan running! Now, I haven’t gone up any passes yet, but I’m happy.
With the new cat, I should even be happier! But I am, after all, broke. If
the engine throws a rod, I will have to scrap the van, since I cannot even
think about trying a transplant. Not to mention the fact that I’m
tired!!!!!
The question for those out there with oil pressure light:
Make sure WHAT is causing your light. Electrical?!? .3 bar sensor?
(replace it) Oil pressure relief valve spring? (stretch it out .5 inch or
so)
If your engine cannot keep pressure, your options are do what I did and take
a chance. Keep in mind that my engine is suppose to be a VW rebuild from CO
with about 70k on it. It was a good bet, I still think I’ll be lucky to
get another 20-30k out of it though. That’s the cheapest option -
Do-it-yerself for $2300 (much less if you don’t do all the side attractions
and / or have all the tools needed). Option 2 is buy a bostonbob block for
$2000 and do the work. Lots of shipping costs, but a fine engine. (option
2.5 is a lilley block) There you’re going to get another 80k out of a
engine. Option 3 is a conversion. Option 4 is sell your van/ or drive it
off a cliff and collect. The latter might involve jail time though. All of
these options are close to double the price if you drop it at the mercy of a
auto shop. There are great mechanics out there and there are losers. Don’t
pay the losers your money. Give the money to those who take pride and
guarantee their work. Look at their tools. Good mechanics really take care
of their tools, better than themselves sometimes.
Yeah, it’s a book, so what. Some folks enjoy the thorough story.
Many thanks to Boston Bob Donalds for his support!!
Brian Cochran
84 westy AT 2.1L
Seattle
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