Date:         Tue, 8 May 2001 23:19:38 -0700
Reply-To:     harald_nancy <harald_nancy@email.msn.com>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         harald_nancy <harald_nancy@email.msn.com>
Subject:      Re: soCal, Heat, Condensation, & Gasoline?
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Jeffrey,
Your post was a good description of what happened to
our '90 westy last time we drove to California from
Washington state.
Prior to entering California, our vanagon ran perfectly.
As soon as we entered California, the vanagon made a
couple of stumbles, but then ran ok again.
 By the time we got to Death Valley, the stumbling
became totally annoying, and sometimes the engine
would almost stop running, even backfiring.
But then it would always start up again, and run ok
for awhile.
The vanagon always runs perfectly up here in Washington
 and Oregon on both mountains and flat, heat and cold.
 I was never able to duplicate the stumblings here.
I spent 3 whole days in Death Valley, trying to
figure out what was wrong with the vanagon.
Things I tried: cleaned all grounds and connectors,
checked ignition switch, interchanged a fuel pump with
a spare that I had with me, changed the fuel filter,
short-circuited fuel pump relay. I even bought a
new distributor in a San Bernadino VW dealership, since
 one mechanic thought it was the Hall sensor.
(the '90 westy has the hall sensor inside the distributor.)
Changed spark plugs, distributor cap, and the vanagon
has an almost new AFM.
One theory was that maybe it was a clogged carbon cannister,
from constant topping off with gasoline.
Or maybe a vacuum in the gas tank?
So I drove without the gas cap for a bit.
Every time I did something, it seemed like I fixed it, because the
vanagon would run well again for a time.
But then later, the stumbling would start all over again.
We decided to drive it back home to Washington state,
despite the stumbling.
When we reentered Oregon, the vanagon ran
perfectly again, and has ever since up here.
Some wild guesses:
1) my westy doesn't "like" California
2) Static buildup on the afm.
3) Mtbe, gas additive in California gasoline.
4) Ecu was getting "warm", perhaps bad solder connection in ecu.
I put the capacitor in the AFM now, and sometime I'll have to take
another trip to California to test it. How about a 1,000 mile test drive?
Harald
'90 westy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey R" <Oxroad@aol.com>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 10:30 PM
Subject: SoCal, Heat, Condensation, & Gasoline?


> I'm fairly newly relocated to Burbank, CA in the SanFernando Valley (6
> months). I'm wondering if a problem with my bus can be due to climate
> conditions and if there's an easy solution.
>
> The problem:
>
> Occasionally and very sporatically my bus will stumble as if for a moment
> it's getting no fuel. Sometimes I'll be cruising at 3,000 RPMs and just
get a
> slight stumble as if I've taken my foot off the gas pedal momentarily. ( I
> have a 4 speed manual trans). Sometime maybe with this scenario the RPMs
are
> a little lower.
>
> Then sometimes, and this has only happened about 2 or 3 times in the last
few
> months, It seems the engine will cut out completely. Long enough to stall
the
> engine. Although I think it only stalls if when it stumbles and then I
come
> off the gas pedal completely. If I keep the pedal depressed I think the
> stumble will pass.
>
> When the bus has stalled the bus always starts right back up with no
problem.
> Now usually on the rest of that journey it will occassionally stumble
> slightly.
>
> As near as I can tell this stumble goes in waves. Meaning it will do it
one
> day, then not do this for a while like a few weeks. "Ah," i think,
"problem
> fixed itself." Maybe it was just bad gas. But I haven't actually been able
to
> monitor it tank by tank. So I don;t know if a clean fill up will solve the
> problem, or if it's linked to certain tanks of gas.
>
> I'm not sure if it only happens on real hot days because I can't remember
> back--and like I said it's sporatic. But today was pretty hot. Maybe
> mid-nineties. But it sure seems hotter than that here. Everything bakes
all
> day in direct sunlight. There's not a lot of shade. I even got a blister
on
> the bottom of my foot from walking bare foot on some black top. (stupid?
> sure. but who knew?) Anyway in this heat today my bus started to stumble
> after about 5 miles on a maybe 10 mile round trip. then it stumbled and
> stalled. Then it started right back up with a turn of the key.
>
> I'm curious if it could be getting bad gas from one gas station. Or if the
> wicked condensation condition could create a problem either in my tank or
the
> tank at the station. During the cooler weather a month or so ago in the
> morning soup cans I had stored in my cabinet in my bus (it's a Westy)
would
> be soaking wet on the outside in the morning. And there would be a puddle
> under my bus and my room mates cars --and yes just from condensation.
>
> Could the heat of the day and the much cooler temps at night cause
> condensation in the gas tank and could that be the cause of my trouble?
(Am I
> that lucky??) I don't even know if "water in the gas" is actually a
reality,
> but I remember back east in the winter we used to sometimes use "dry gas"
to
> take care of what we called water in the gas.
>
> Is dry gas a possible solution for this milder climate or is it just for
> freezing temps? Are there bad side effects from Dry Gas? Would keeping the
> tank full and not letting it run low help ward off the problem? And
finally I
> don;t think my gas cap seals completely--as the gas cap failed the suction
> test at the Smog Test. Would the loose cap exacerbate condensation in the
> tank?
>
> (I just installed a new fuel filter--the one before the fuel pump-. Is
there
> another? Oh and a new air filter for what it's worth. The spark plugs seem
> fine. Slight carbon on the base of the plug, but the electrode is clean
and
> white--the Bosch 4 electrode plug)
>
> Any info will be appreciated.
> Thanks
> Jeff
> 83.5 Westy
> NYC
>
>