Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 08:52:29 -0700
Reply-To: Brian Cochran <rangerbrian@hotmail.com>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Brian Cochran <rangerbrian@hotmail.com>
Subject: more feed back on Chris..... (was avoid ranger brian)
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<DIV>
<P>Mr. Walters, I have a grip. I wonder about you spending so much time on giving me info I don't want. I had a bad experience and I want others to know about. I have that right. Courtesy should accompany list dealings, since there are not any of the ebay rules of protection. I did not receive courtesy. I didn't even receive all that I paid for. What do say to that? I had numerous "talks" with chris, asking about where my order was, when it was coming, etc. NUMEROUS. I'm tired. I don't feel this much work should go into anything. And yes, I'm posting this on the list.</P>
<P>Sincerely, </P>
<P>Brian Cochran<BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "Samuel L. Walters"<SLWALTERS@EARTHLINK.NET>
<DIV></DIV>>To: Brian Cochran<RANGERBRIAN@HOTMAIL.COM>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: avoid Ranger Brian - bad apple in the forest
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 08:05:35 -0400
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Brian,
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>The general rule on this list is that individuals work out the problems
<DIV></DIV>>they have in transactions between themselves. You should follow this
<DIV></DIV>>rule. Have you tried to resolve this problem with Chris before blasting
<DIV></DIV>>him on the list? You make no mention of this, so I would assume not.
<DIV></DIV>>Chris says you didn't try to talk with him first after getting the stuff
<DIV></DIV>>and you omitted from your tirade that you knew about his intervening eye
<DIV></DIV>>problems.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>I have had a number of interactions with Chris Turner, which is his
<DIV></DIV>>name, not something he goes by on the list. He never is overly warm and
<DIV></DIV>>friendly, even when he is spending a long time on the telephone giving
<DIV></DIV>>you some of his vast storehouse of information about VW vans. So you
<DIV></DIV>>might as well wait for the second ice age if you want Mr. Charm and
<DIV></DIV>>Personality from Chris. We all can't be Mr. Personality, like I am sure
<DIV></DIV>>you think you are. (From the tone of this letter, I doubt it. Bet you
<DIV></DIV>>have a real short fuse.) I have learned not to be put off by Chris'
<DIV></DIV>>personality and taciturn demeanor, and to learn what I can, and figure
<DIV></DIV>>out if he has something I want to buy. Chris also spends lots of time
<DIV></DIV>>giving people on the list good advice about all types of problems about
<DIV></DIV>>vanagons and buses - sometimes cryptic and a bit condescending when
<DIV></DIV>>people are asking a question that has been asked and answered on a
<DIV></DIV>>monthly basis, but generally helpful.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Sometimes his personal responses are also cryptic and seem as if he
<DIV></DIV>>didn't really read your question. Sometimes he doesn't respond to my
<DIV></DIV>>inquiries about things he has for sale. He is not a business.
<DIV></DIV>>JordanVw, not JordanVW, stands for Jordan View, the name of his parents'
<DIV></DIV>>farm which sits on Jordan Creek outside Allentown, PA.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>I have only bought 2 items from him over the last 10 months since I
<DIV></DIV>>joined the list. However, he sells dozens of items to lots of people
<DIV></DIV>>and you are the first to ever complain.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>I have never had any interaction with him other than parts and repair
<DIV></DIV>>questions and do not have any personal relationship with him.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>What are the Bus Depot, VanAgain, and VW dealership prices for the
<DIV></DIV>>products that you received? Lots more than $25. Did Chris promise to
<DIV></DIV>>charge you only the exact amount of shipping? Was he supposed to drive
<DIV></DIV>>from the farm to the post office or UPS place for free? Buy tape for
<DIV></DIV>>free to pack the box for free. If you agreed to his charge of $7 for
<DIV></DIV>>shipping, what is your beef? You spent $32 total, not $320.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Chris is not a business, but a person who has expanded his hobby to
<DIV></DIV>>include parting out used vans. If you want to deal with a business, go
<DIV></DIV>>right ahead and pay lots more. Or get in you van and drive all over the
<DIV></DIV>>place looking for parts yards which have an old Westy and pull the parts
<DIV></DIV>>yourself. Then compare that with what it took you to get this part from
<DIV></DIV>>Chris - even if he was slow.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>How long do you think it took Chris to take these parts out of the van
<DIV></DIV>>and then to package it up? If we use $20/hr labor, half of what a
<DIV></DIV>>mechanic would make, as a basis for calculation, then you probably got
<DIV></DIV>>the parts for close to free. I recently have stripped an old Westy and
<DIV></DIV>>it took a while. You can buy screws and snaps at a hardware store.
<DIV></DIV>>While maybe he should have included as many as he had, don't make a
<DIV></DIV>>mountain out of a molehill.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>You said he had your check for a few weeks, not that he had cashed the
<DIV></DIV>>check. I bet that you used those words because he had not cashed the
<DIV></DIV>>check.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Now I am not saying that Chris is perfect and that you and he shouldn't
<DIV></DIV>>have come to a clearer understanding of the transaction. Before I
<DIV></DIV>>finally commit to any parts purchase I make over the list or net, I make
<DIV></DIV>>a clear written record in emails of what I think I am buying and the
<DIV></DIV>>price. If you didn't do that, then most of the burden falls on you.
<DIV></DIV>>You are clearly an adult, even though you are acting like a petulant
<DIV></DIV>>child. If this was a $750 to $2000 purchase, I could understand this
<DIV></DIV>>level of response - but then only if you had tried to resolve it with
<DIV></DIV>>the individual a first and second time.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Lately I have been parting out some cars and have sold stuff to about
<DIV></DIV>>three people and have some others with whom I have corresponded about
<DIV></DIV>>sales/purchases. I can guarantee you that I would think long and hard
<DIV></DIV>>about entering into a transaction with you after this tirade over such a
<DIV></DIV>>small amount of money and what seems like a good price for the goods.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Get a grip and find something important to worry about. Are you really
<DIV></DIV>>a ranger? Then you had better start worrying about what the current
<DIV></DIV>>government is going to do to the environment - a real issue.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Maybe it is you, not Chris, who needs some time off of the list. Or
<DIV></DIV>>maybe some anger management counseling. Or maybe some interpersonal
<DIV></DIV>>skills training.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Sam Walters
<DIV></DIV><br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a href="http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></p></html>
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