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Date:         Mon, 4 Jun 2001 21:02:19 -0000
Reply-To:     John Pronk <john_pronk@STRATOS.CO.NZ>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         John Pronk <john_pronk@STRATOS.CO.NZ>
Organization: Stratos New Zealand Ltd
Subject:      Re: Update on Waterboxer vs Transplant Power Options
Comments: To: Mark Keller <kelphoto@ISLANDNET.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

The Subaru engine is HEAVIER than the WBX, by some 12KG without flywheel, some 16 odd KG with flywheel. The Audi five is 25 KG heavier than the WBX.(flywheel and clutch installed) John.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Keller" <kelphoto@ISLANDNET.COM> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 15:30 Subject: Update on Waterboxer vs Transplant Power Options

> I'm adding some additional engines to the chart the TII CO's Golf 8 V > engine, and the current South African 5 cylinders for comparison. A > minor note, that the South African VW web site does not list a 4 > cylinder option for the Bus only the 2.3 and 2.5 liter five cylinder are listed. > > An additional note, I looked at the TII co web site for information on > the engine they sell-- I am impressed that this "kit" has everything > needed for a driveway conversion. But must admit I was quite turned off > by the hoopla. The waterboxer power is listed incorrectly at 95 hp at > 3200 RPM. and should be 4400 RPM. The 132 ft lb. of torque at 3200 RPM > claimed by TII Co's 8 V 2.0 liter engine doesn't appear to be confirmed > by the South African Web site specs for the 2.0 liter 8 v, which lists > max. torque @ 125 ft at 2400, which is good low end grunt by the way. > > Another hype was the "Super clean" emissions at 4 ppm HC. With a cat > this should be zero, recently Steve Blackham reported a non cat emission > result of hc in the 30 ppm on his Vanagon. The foot note on TII CO claim > explains that this isn't a 2.0 emissions test, but then seems to suggest > that the block is stamped 1.8 and so it's ok; Frankly I'm not sure what > is being implied. For all good things on this site, it should be cleaned > up! > > Then other revision is the updated to wheel horsepower numbers. I > originally posted a 30% loss as generally accepted which it correct for > 200 hp engines, not us. The figure of 20% more in line for 100 -125 hp engines. > > Engine @3800 Rpm 65 MPH Cruise Crank Torque & hp Wheel Torque & hp > > Stock Waterboxer 112 ft lb. 82 hp 90 ft lb. > 66 hp > Rockers and Chipped 128 ft lb. 94 hp 102 ft lb. > 75 hp > Lilly's (low guess) 143 ft lb. 104 114 ft > lb. 83 hp > Marshall I -4 113 ft lb. 82 hp 90 ft > lb. 66 hp > Subaru 2.2 137 ft lb. 100 hp 110 ft lb. 80 hp > Subaru 2.5 166 ft lb. 120 hp 133 ft. lb. 96 hp > TII CO 2.0* 114 ft lb. 82 hp 91 ft. lb 66 hp > TII Co 2.O Chipped 137 ft lb 99 hp 114 ft lb 83 hp > SA 2.3 5 cyl 130 ft lb 94 hp 104 ft lb 80 hp > SA 2.6 5 Cyl 165 ft lb 120 hp 133 ft lb 96 hp > > Notes: I used the dyno figure from > http://www.autothority.com/pe/newitems_20.html for TII Co 2.0 8v 2.o add > 15% more to the dyna jet figures since VW claims only 15% loss for a > front drive vehicle. The SA 2.6 figures are just a practical guess, as > the spec show 84 hp at 3000 rpm and 134 hp at 5000 rpm and I could not > locate a dyno for this. I did find a "testimonial for a lubricant based > on a 2.5 Caravelle, it's below. > > I kinda expect some flak for the low numbers on the stock TII CO > engine, but I find no verifiable source to support the torque claims on > their Website. They appear to be claiming "chipped" specs for a stock > engine. The engine's weight is unknown too. So if any one reading this > has shipping weight for the TII CO motor I'd appreciate it. In lieu of > that I'm going to say that the engine block is iron, and should weigh > MORE than a waterboxer which is around 400 lbs. The Subaru is lighter > at around 300 lbs. > > My conclusion is that the TII CO transplant is convenient, and has a > warranty along with a current electronic management system. which is > chippable, see the Url I listed But it does not seem to have any more > miracle cure for power in the Vanagon, especially the heavier Westy than > other less expensive options. What seems to be the trick on inline > fours is to claim the higher revving horsepower which I personally don't > believe anyone LIKES to do on a daily driver. > > The chipped 8v 2.0 numbers seem to indicate that the 2.0 8v is as > powerful as the 2.2 Subaru, albeit heavier by at least 100 lb. maybe > more. The ease of installations and peace of mind come at a price too. I > think Ken posted $7000 for a turn key TII CO, on top of the wait. > > After doing the research and writing this post I feel I have a clear > Idea about what options are out there. > > Sincerely, > > Mark Keller > 91 Carat > Cowichan Bay, BC > > Testimonial for UNIGLIDE lubricant. Note that SA 5 cylinder have > troubles at time too!!! > > SCOTTAIR > Pietermaritzburg, South Africa > > Re: Uniglide FRC > > Dear Sir > > My Plant Hire Company has been in operation for many years. > Not only do I use your product in all my plant hire machinery, but > also in my off-road rally and personal vehicles. > > On a recent occasion I took my family on a 2 000km trip to > Kimberly. This was accomplished in our VW Caravelle 2.5 which > had been treated with Uniglide FRF. Before even leaving > Pietermaritzburg, I heard a slight rumble in the motor but decided to > push on regardless. > > On our return I removed the sump and inspected the bearings. > No. 3 bigend bearing had lost all the white metal and the copper > colour of the shell running directly on the crankshaft. > > When micing the crank we found no noticeable wear or need to > polish the crank. New bearings were fitted and we have since > completed a further 900km. > > It is my opinion that without Uniglide FRF we would never have > completed our trip to Kimberly. > > At present my Caravelle 2.5 has 146 000km on the clock. > > Thank you so much for a wonderful product. > > Regards > B. M. Scott > Proprietor >


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