Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 17:18:10 -0700
Reply-To: Michael Snow <mwsnow@HOME.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Michael Snow <mwsnow@HOME.COM>
Subject: 2WD Prototype Springs - Day 2 (long)
In-Reply-To: <3B224EB6.8411FDCD@syncro.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I drove around quite a bit today with the new springs. Like Mark said, I
have a 1983 ASI diesel camper. I do not unload it when not camping, with
the exception of draining the water tank. ASI campers are constructed from
passenger model vans, and they do not have heavy duty springs like the later
Westfalia. I am currently using Gabriel gas shocks, which are a bargain at
$22 from Pep Boys. Like most of us, I drive the same sections of road all
the time. I figure that the difference in the springs will be the most
dramatic in my van due to the pitifully sagging and heavily loaded passenger
springs that I am used to.
My initial impression of this spring design:
1. Ride height is increased about 1/2 inch all around. It's not a Westy, so
it doesn't lean to the left, even with the worn out stock springs. It's
hard to tell exactly, but the van seems level front to rear instead of the
nose-up attitude that many of the older ones have. If anything, the rear is
slightly taller. Tomorrow, I'll have it loaded with passengers so I can
look at it again. My guess is that it will be close to perfectly level.
2. Handling in general is much improved. Buffeting from large trucks
passing at highway speeds is significantly decreased. At my normal entrance
to the freeway, there is a decreasing radius on-ramp that I would not
normally drive faster than 25 MPH. Today I did it at 32, and felt confident
that I could have gone a little faster as long as the pavement is dry. The
reduced body roll is very confidence inspiring, and could lead me to
actually find the limit of adhesion of my 185R14 Yokohama tires.
3. Ride quality is improved dramatically. Much more firm, but still pliant
and comfortable. The limitations of my bargain shocks are obvious with
these springs, as they do not have sufficient damping to eliminate rebound.
I think a set of Bilstein gas shocks would be well suited for the stiffness
of the springs. Mark has them in his diesel Westy, and the ride is
exceptionally nice.
4. When we drove yesterday, we intentionally went through some local streets
with large dips for water drainage. There are grooves ground into the
pavement at every one of these where some unsuspecting driver has bottomed
out from going too fast. I usually slow down to about 10 MPH when crossing
them to prevent the camper (and all the stuff in it) from bouncing too hard.
With the new springs, we were running through them in excess of 25 MPH with
no bottoming of the spring and no wheel hop. My pile of junk (we all have
one, don't we?) in the back of the van stayed put. The dishes and pans in
the cabinets stayed quiet. As I said, my shocks are not up to the task for
this type of driving, though they are fairly fresh and still have good gas
pressure in the cartridge. As a side note, we tried this with the new
springs in the front only. The rear end took quite a beating until we put
the new springs back there too.
A short comment on the condition of my old, stock springs. Like all other
progressive rate springs I have ever worked with, the small diameter section
of the wire is completely collapsed. Even when removed from the van, thin
section does not expand. It sits flat, like some sorry looking steel
cinnamon roll, unable to contribute anything to the ride of the van. Sad...
I only have a couple years experience with Vanagons, but this has happened
to every progressive coil spring that I have ever seen on the off-road
trucks and SUVs where you see them a lot. I greatly prefer a thoughtfully
designed, single rate spring.
I know now how the guys that test exotic cars for the magazines must feel.
They get to drive cool stuff, and then have to give it back :( From my
initial impression, I would not hesitate to buy a set of these springs for
an older camper.
Mike Snow
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM]On Behalf
> Of Steve Schwenk
> Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 9:29 AM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: first 2WD Prototype Spring install
>
>
> Actually, how much height they give a westy will depend
> what year westy springs the westy has, of course. 1/2"
> on an '83 makes sense. I too am curious what they will
> be relative to the taller '85 springs. Likely only a
> 1/4" or so. Which is fine since they are the tallest
> ones to begin with.
> Steve
>
> Steve Schwenk wrote:
> >
> > Mark, that's great news! I did not increase the length
> > of the springs at all, only increased the spring rate
> > because by my calculations the new rate alone would
> > increase height 1/4"-1/2", slightly higher in the rear
> > empty so it will be level with a camping load. How
> > much higher in the rear are they? I was hoping for
> > only a 1/4" or so difference, not much more. What is
> > an ASI camper? How much lighter than a westy? I do
> > not think that the springs will give a full 1/2"
> > increased height on a westy, but they may.
> >
> > Thanks Mark! Todd is putting in his this weekend.
> >
> > Steve
> > p.s. can i post this to the vanagon list?
> > Mark Drillock wrote:
> > >
> > > Steve, I got the springs and yesterday we installed them in Mike
Snow's
> > > 83 ASI Camper. Due to a more even layout of camping gear it did not
have
> > > the lean of a Westy even with the old springs. He also has recently
new
> > > noname Pep Boys shocks.
> > >
> > > The new springs are pretty level front to back and side to side,
> > > slightly higher in the rear.
> > > The new springs raised his 83 by 1/2" at each corner.
> > >
> > > The old springs gave a ride height if about 15 1/2" - 15 3/4" all
around
> > > and the new are 16" - 16 1/4".
> > >
> > > The ride is greatly improved, less sway on corners, a more stable ride
> > > in general. We took it on a very bumpy route and the difference was
> > > dramatic. Even speeding up for the deep dips resulted in no bottoming
> > > out. There was no time for a freeway test but today we will get back
to
> > > it.
> > >
> > > I can't believe how well the first run works so far. More testing is
> > > needed of course.
> > >
> > > I am anxious to try them in a Westy. My 82 Westy already has the
taller
> > > 85 passenger springs installed so I am curious how the ride height
will
> > > be.
> > >
> > > thanks,
> > > Mark
> > >
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