Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 14:27:23 -0400
Reply-To: Arthur Sauerhaft <kivka@EARTHLINK.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Arthur Sauerhaft <kivka@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Terry's Anti Semitic Insults --
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
John,
As " an older guy" just what was Terry trying to say? If you have a better
understanding of it please enlighten us all with your sacred wisdom!
I agree, this forum should be an exercise in free speech ( hopefully mostly
Vanagon related) this exercise works two ways. When some insensitive clod
(at best) makes some ugly and disagreeable remark others can exercise their
right of free speech to condemn and reveal that person for what he/she is. I
hope it is obvious to everyone what Terry is. Would walking in Terry's shoes
mean wearing Jack Boots?
-Arthur
P.S. The holocaust also included Gays,Gypsies,Political Prisoners,
Handicapped people and anyone else who didn't fit into the "master plan".
The total murdered was probably closer to 10 million.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Klun" <jklun@GJ.NET>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: Terry's Anti Semitic Insults --
> Volks-
>
> I've been trying to ignore this thread and had thought it would have died
by
> now. Let's put it to rest.
>
> Some of the remarks that have been made by various people on this list
prove to
> me that we are dealing with different age groups and cultures here. I am
a
> product of the 50's and 60's. Some of the phrases that have appeared
during
> this discussion were common when I was growing up. Unfortunately, today,
our
> Political Correctness Police have insisted that everything we say should
be
> controlled by thm. Those of you who are much younger on this list have no
> conception of how things were when we were growing up just as it is
difficult
> for us to understand you. Things we older generations say are taken out
of
> context by younger people and vice versa.
>
> Our country is literally a melting pot of different cultures (I am an
immigrant
> myself and couldn't speak a word of English before the age of 6), thoughts
and
> words. What may be offensive to one is not to another. Unfortunately, we
try
> to perceive, understand and judge everything and everyone by our own rules
and
> perceptions. Anything that's different is immediately suspect because it
is
> different from our expectations.
>
> I do not condone prejudice in any form but I will NOT stop anyone from
saying
> what they think. The USA is built on the right to free speech whether it
hurts
> someone or not. It's when we carry our words into deeds that can cause
harm and
> injury to ourselves and others. That is why we have the Aryan Right,
Neo-Nazis,
> Socialists, Liberals, Conservatives, Republicans, Democrats, Buddhists,
Moslems,
> Jews, Semites, Chinese, Japanese, Blacks Whites, Yellows, etc., coexisting
in
> the US. This is the only country in the world that allows this
coexistence.
>
> Let's just say that Terry is allowed to think, say and write what words he
> wants, anytime he wants. We may not like what he has said or how he has
said it
> but I will defend his right to say it and have. If you don't want to read
what
> Terry has to write (on any subject- Vanagon [mandatory content] or
otherwise) it
> is your right to delete his e-mails and ignore him. Us older guys (me)
> understood what he was saying and it didn't bother us.
>
> True understanding is the attempt to walk a mile in anther's shoes. Once
we
> have done that, we will not be so quick to condemn.
>
> The end.
>
>
> puzerewski wrote:
>
> > I did a search on Zyklon B and discovered that the remarks were in
extremely
> > bad taste..............Shockingly so............
> >
> > Things definitely got out of hand.
> >
> > Adam Puzerewski
> >
> > 81 westy
> > 74 beetle
> > 73 Transporter (new!!!!!!!)
> >
> > Vanagon Partsmobiles
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Horace K. Sawyer" <hksawyer@CATT.COM>
> > To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> > Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 7:56 PM
> > Subject: Re: [VANAGON] Terry's Anti Semitic Insults --
> >
> > > At 10:24 AM 6/29/01 -0700, mike and shari wrote:
> > > >I took 'to the showers' as meaning, take a break or retire yourself.
> > Like the
> > > >pitcher who is told to 'hit the showers'. I doubt very highly that
> > someone
> > > >here is going to make light of the Jewish holocaust, now, back to my
> > sunny
> > > >vanagon world......
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Mike G.
> > >
> > > Same here, more or less, but a little different to me. I didn't for
one
> > > second see it as ANTI-SEMETIC. In fact, I had to read several of
Terry's
> > > messages to TRY to find the offending one. Not that Terry is not
> > offensive
> > > -- because he clearly is. : ) But did he mean "to the showers" as
> > > anti-Semitism? It did not ring of that to me. But then, who knows
what
> > > lurks in the hearts of men.
> > > I thought it had something to do with some sort of joke about a bunch
of
> > > "us" being in the chat room together, or some nonsense in typical
jest,
> > and
> > > needing to go cleanse ourselves. (Like HK would really be in there in
> > > there doing whatever -- that kind of nonsense, I mean) Or, the "I'm
outta
> > > here," or "you're outta here" kind of statement. "Game over," so to
> > speak,
> > > or signifying the end of discussion.
> > > Don't be PO'd Steve. A thousand points of light . . .
> > > My .03
> > > later babe
> > > hk
> > >
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