Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 11:17:25 -0700
Reply-To: Boroko <marokus@VOYAGER.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Boroko <marokus@VOYAGER.NET>
Subject: Re: My Great Exit....... at last!
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Tim,
It seems that you have been with this for quite a while. Too bad that you
have had too much. Experience around here is what makes the thing work.
You are 100% right about the fluff content being a bit too much to wade
through, I also abhor the threads that turn into rant sessions. That
considered, I still find value in the list. I am not mechanically
challenged, and thus could eventually figure out the problems myself
eventually, but I do appreciate the shortcut in learning curve that the
list offers. It seems that I have experienced almost all of the problems
that have been mentioned and am grateful for the freely offered advise
that I have found. Without the wealth of knowledge available, I may have
given up trying to keep my vanagons as daily drivers. I do love them, but
if I had to do all of the research myself, I don't think it would be worth
it. I can only imagine how frustrating it would be to a newcomer without
the help. If we want to keep a healthy flock of our beloved vanagons on
the road, I think a forum like this is indespensible.
* Do I wish that the list was organized in a way that allowed easy
cataloging and searching? Absolutely! Am I going to spend the 20 hours a
day setting up a server to do that well? I can't keep up on my own
website, let alone build another LARGE one.
* Would I like to have a purely technical group? Yes and no. I cherish
the notes from those that have been there and are willing to share. The
lighter conversations are refreshing and add depth to our understanding of
each other and ourselves. The fights suck. If we could get rid of those,
it would be great. I have a vastly different personality than some on the
list, but I wouldn't hesitate to help any one of them out. If they
display an effort to keep their Vanagon on the road, then that's enough of
a connection for me. I don't like the slams for differences in opinions.
I keep my vanagons close to original because I like the way they are
built, but I respect the effort and enginuity involved in a conversion. If
you are willing and capable, go for it. My exerience is that the effort
and lingering problems are too high for me, but if someone wants to put a
Subie in, so what, might leave more spare parts for my waterboxer. I have
built and raced VW's for a number of years and when I choose to
experiment, I have a suitable platform. When I want to go for a trip, I
want to get in and turn the key.
* I also agree with you that it would be nice to organize the list so that
we could buy from Overland and others, but we can't even keep organized
enough to keep from burning out list admins. If one is so inclined, he
can get an account from Overland. I had one and found that I would rather
let someone else keep up with it all. If we did organize a group to do
this, let me see, we would have to invest in an area to work out of, we
would have to have all of the support logistics, order takers,SS
withholdings, taxes, phones, computers, website, merchant account,
shipping arrangements..... Sounds kind of like a vendor to me. I am more
than happy letting Ron, Ken, Darrell, Jim, and others handle that for the
meager profit that they make off of me. A fair exchange of their effort
for my money. Sure beats the unresponsive Dealers and the Wrong Parts
Place (I like Jack, I just think that things have gotten out of control
for him. He needs to hire a bunch of us from the list).
*THINGS THE LIST NEEDS (humble observations)
1) Lighten up! These are inanimate objects (usually) and we, as humans,
have the ability to outsmart them if we try.
2) We represent close to 1000 different personalities (probably a lot more
that have "bailed out"). We do not have to agree on everything, and we do
not have to prove that we are right. It was once said that discussion
resorts to personal attacks when one's arguments are difficult to support.
3) We need to find a way for all of us to find answers that have been
discussed before. At least reasonable search results. I don't know the
answer to this one but a lot of bandwith is wasted on known answers. Quite
a few people have made attempts at this but if they have succeded, it is
not common knowledge. Do we beef up VANAGON.COM to lead folks to the
right discussion? Change the search engine? Set rules for posting?
"Subject" defined better? Since I'm not up to speed on these matters and
not available to help on the site, I'm reluctant to speak too loudly.
4) Appreciate that our vendors have exibited good restraint and usually
only answered with availability and pricing when asked "where do I get
XXX". There have been times in the past (and on other lists) that vendors
abused the access to the audience. I find no offence in what has been
offered lately and in fact, usually end up needing the same thing within a
few months. These folks have sprung up because of a specialized need and
as such have given us options that most of us wouldn't know of or have
access to. The bad ones are shunned quickly. How many of your other
dealings have this kind of feedback network? Thanks to those involved.
This List is a cooperative effort. If we want to benefit from it we need
to be courteous, humble, and helpful when we can. Belonging to the List
takes effort. I get a lot from it when it is going well. I get
frustrated when it digresses. I can't imagine what kind of shape my
stable would be in if it weren't for the list.
Thank you all sincerely for working to keep this together.
Mark Rokus
'81 Westy
'86 Syncro
'87 Syncro GL (KiSseR)
'87 Syncro GL Westy (Smokey the Turtle)
too many others to admit to in print.....
marokus@voyager.net
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