Date:         Wed, 18 Jul 2001 16:29:49 -0700
Reply-To:     Karl Wolz <wolzphoto@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Karl Wolz <wolzphoto@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject:      Fw: [vanagon] Vanagon Custom Coil Springs Are Ready to Order

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Schwenk" <sxs@concentric.net>
To: "SpareVanagonList" <vanagon@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 3:12 PM
Subject: [vanagon] Vanagon Custom Coil Springs Are Ready to Order


> If someone could forward this to the Vanagon list, i
> would appreciate it.  Thanks.
> ________
> Hey!  I am finally ready to do the production run on
> the 2WD Vanagon Westfalia custom coil springs.  We have
> done the testing with the prototypes that were made in
> May 2001 and are now ready to take orders for the
> springs.  Pertinent details and info are outlined
> below.  Please let me know at your earliest convenience
> whether you would like to reserve a set with a $100
> deposit.  The balance ($300 + shipping) will be due
> when the springs are ready to ship out the first week
> of September (see details below.)
> Thanks!
> Steve Schwenk
>
> OVERVIEW OF SPRING STATS & GOALS:
>
> The primary goal with the custom springs is to improve
> handling and stability.  The springs will give a firmer
> feel, will improve stability in cross winds, will
> improve cornering, will provide a modest increase in
> available suspension travel and will make your van
> handle much better with a typical camping load than
> the stock springs.  If installed with new shocks, they
> will make a van feel like a new vehicle (no kidding!).
>
>
> A secondary goal is to increase usable suspension
> travel by increasing ride height modestly.  The springs
> are based on the height of the 1985 vanagon westy
> spring, the tallest spring VW made for the vanagon.
> Thus how much increased height you get will depend on
> what year your van is.  The early 80s vans will get the
> greatest lift in terms of increased ride height
> (roughly 1/2" depending on how much your old springs
> are sagging).  Later vans will get a moderate increase
> in height (1/4 - 1/2").  1985 vans will see only a
> modest increase in height (roughly 1/4").  List member
> Todd last has a photo of the springs installed on his
> 1988 Westfalia at:
>
> http://rubatoguy.home.mindspring.com/springs.html
>
> The extra height gives additional usable suspension
> travel.  This is nice on rougher roads, but especially
> when traveling with a full camp load.  Generally, the
> new springs will allow the van to ride when loaded at a
> height and with the suspension travel available that
> the van would normally ride empty on the stock
> springs.  The increase in height was kept modest and
> within VW specs so as not to adversely affect cornering
> on the highway.  A lower vehicle will corner a little
> better than a taller vehicle.  Stiffer
> suspension/springs will also corner better than softer
> suspension/springs.
>
> The increase in stiffness was kept modest to ensure
> that the stock shock damping will be adequate for the
> spring rate, and to keep the suspension supple and
> responsive.  However, the increase in stiffness is
> enough to address the sloppy wallowing feeling, poor
> cross-wind stability and mushy cornering the stock
> springs on a westy typically have.  It is impossible to
> make one spring that will be ideal under all
> circumstances, but these are a definite improvement
> over the stock springs.  Often, stock suspension is
> designed to ensure the vehicle "feels"  the way the
> manufacturer believes a customer would want it to feel
> when taking a test drive off of the show room floor.
> These are designed to "feel" the way a seasoned westy
> owner wants them to feel and perform when the van is
> loaded up for a typical camping trip.
>
> The springs are made by a major spring manufacturer
> that has been in business since 1868 (not a typo).
> They first made springs for horse drawn covered
> wagons!  They currently manufacturer springs for major
> national brand aftermarket suspension/parts
> distributors that you see in car mags and on the web.
> The springs are hot wound, shot peened and powder
> coated.  Each spring is tested to ensure it is within
> specs before being shipped.  The springs will sag about
> 1/4" or so after initial installation (after one good
> trip in a loaded van), but much of that is just the
> seating of the components, not the actual sagging of
> the spring.  There have been no reports of the syncro
> springs sagging more than this in the 2+ years since
> the first sets were sold, and they get a much heavier
> workout than the typical 2WD vanagon.
>
> PRICE & ORDERING & SHIPPING
>
> The price of the springs is $400 for a set of 4 +
> shipping (50lbs) + 8% sales tax for California orders.
> This is less than 1/2 what the stock springs cost.  The
> manufacturer has given a delivery date of 6-7 weeks,
> meaning they will be ready to ship the first or second
> week of September, 2001.
>
> A $100 deposit is required to reserve a set.  The
> balance is due before the springs will be shipped.
> Some extra sets will be available, but when I did this
> with the syncro springs, all of the extras were sold
> within 2 days of receiving the order from the
> manufacturer.  I simply do not have the resources to
> stock large quantities of the springs.  To reserve a
> set using a credit card via PayPal.com, go to the
> bottom of the page at the URL below:
>
> http://www.concentric.net/~Sxs/springs.shtml
>
> To reserve a set with a check, send the deposit to:
>
> Steve Schwenk
> 8332 Geary Blvd.
> San Francisco CA 94121
>
> (415) 387-3434
>
> UPS Shipping costs will range from roughly $35 on the
> west coast to $50 for the east coast for the 50lbs
> package.  This is about double what shipping costs were
> last year due to fuel price increases.
>
>
> FEEDBACK ON THE 2WD PROTOTYPE SPRINGS MADE IN MAY 2001:
>
> Below is some feedback from the people who have
> installed the prototype springs we had made in May
> 2001.
> __________
> From:  Mark Drillock <drillock@earthlink.net>
> To:    Steve Schwenk <steve@SYNCRO.ORG>
>
> Steve, I got the springs and yesterday we installed
> them in Mike Snow's 83 ASI Camper. Due to a more even
> layout of camping gear it did not have the lean of a
> Westy even with the old springs. He also has recently
> new noname Pep Boys
> shocks.
>
> The new springs are pretty level front to back and side
> to side, slightly higher in the rear. The new springs
> raised his 83 by 1/2" at each corner.
>
> The old springs gave a ride height if about 15 1/2" -
> 15 3/4" all around and the new are 16" - 16 1/4".
>
> The ride is greatly improved, less sway on corners, a
> more stable ride in general. We took it on a very bumpy
> route and the difference was dramatic. Even speeding up
> for the deep dips resulted in no bottoming out. There
> was no time for a freeway test but today we will get
> back to it.
>
> I can't believe how well the first run works so far.
> More testing is needed of course.  I am anxious to try
> them in a
> Westy.  My 82 Westy already has the taller 85 passenger
> springs installed so I am curious how the ride height
> will be.
>
> thanks,
> Mark
> _______
> Subject: 2WD Prototype Springs - Day 2 (long)
> Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 17:18:10 -0700
> From: Michael Snow <mwsnow@HOME.COM>
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>
> I drove around quite a bit today with the new springs.
> Like Mark said, I have a 1983 ASI diesel camper.  I do
> not unload it when not camping, with the exception of
> draining the water tank.  ASI campers are constructed
> from passenger model vans, and they do not have heavy
> duty springs like the later Westfalia.  I am currently
> using Gabriel gas shocks, which are a bargain at $22
> from Pep Boys.  Like most of us, I drive the same
> sections of road all the time.  I figure that the
> difference in the springs will be the most dramatic in
> my van due to the pitifully sagging and heavily loaded
> passenger springs that I am used to.
>
> My initial impression of this spring design:
>
> 1. Ride height is increased about 1/2 inch all around.
> It's not a Westy, so it doesn't lean to the left, even
> with the worn out stock springs.  It's hard to tell
> exactly, but the van seems level front to rear instead
> of the nose-up attitude that many of the older ones
> have.  If anything, the rear is slightly taller.
> Tomorrow, I'll have it loaded with passengers so I can
> look at it again.  My guess is that it will be close to
> perfectly level.
>
> 2. Handling in general is much improved.  Buffeting
> from large trucks passing at highway speeds is
> significantly decreased. At my normal entrance to the
> freeway, there is a decreasing radius on-ramp that I
> would not normally drive faster than 25 MPH.  Today I
> did it at 32, and felt confident that I could have gone
> a little faster as long as the pavement is dry. The
> reduced body roll is very confidence inspiring, and
> could lead me to actually find the limit of adhesion of
> my 185R14 Yokohama tires.
>
> 3. Ride quality is improved dramatically.  Much more
> firm, but still pliant and comfortable.  The
> limitations of my bargain shocks are obvious with these
> springs, as they do not have sufficient damping to
> eliminate rebound.  I think a set of Bilstein gas
> shocks would be well suited for the stiffness of the
> springs.  Mark has them in his diesel Westy, and the
> ride is exceptionally nice.
>
> 4. When we drove yesterday, we intentionally went
> through some local streets with large dips for water
> drainage.  There are grooves ground into the pavement
> at every one of these where some unsuspecting driver
> has bottomed out from going too fast.  I usually slow
> down to about 10 MPH when crossing them to prevent the
> camper (and all the stuff in it) from bouncing too
> hard.  With the new springs, we were running through
> them in excess of 25 MPH with no bottoming of the
> spring and no wheel hop.  My pile of junk (we all have
> one, don't we?) in the back of the van stayed put.  The
> dishes and pans in the cabinets stayed quiet.  As I
> said, my shocks are not up
> to the task for this type of driving, though they are
> fairly fresh and still have good gas pressure in the
> cartridge.  As a side note, we tried this with the new
> springs in the front only.  The rear end took quite a
> beating until we put the new springs back there too.
>
> A short comment on the condition of my old, stock
> springs.  Like all other progressive rate springs I
> have ever worked with, the small diameter section of
> the wire is completely collapsed.  Even when removed
> from the van, thin section does not expand.  It sits
> flat, like some sorry looking steel cinnamon roll,
> unable to contribute anything to the ride of the van.
> Sad... I only have a couple years experience with
> Vanagons, but this has happened to every progressive
> coil spring that I have ever seen on the off-road
> trucks and SUVs where you see them a lot.  I greatly
> prefer a thoughtfully designed, single rate spring.
>
> I know now how the guys that test exotic cars for the
> magazines must feel.  They get to drive cool stuff, and
> then have to give it back :(  From my initial
> impression, I would not hesitate to buy a set of these
> springs for an older camper.
>
> Mike Snow
> _________
>
> Subject: Re: Springs
> Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 15:32:27 -0700
> From: Todd Last <Rubatoguy@mindspring.com>
> To: steve@syncro.org
>
> Good evening.
>
> I got the springs in, and thought I'd give you an
> initial report. I have a '88 Westy and I was moving
> from H&R 'sport' springs to the new ones.
>
> [....]
>
> Well, the good news is that the ride is just about
> perfect. It is so EXCELLENT to be able to go over bumps
> and not jar your fillings from your teeth. The new
> springs have a little
> bit of wallow front to rear compared to the H&R but are
> 100 times better than I recall the original springs to
> be.  Very
> stable in turns.  I have not driven enough to give a
> good report, but so far I'm really happy with them.
>
> Next weekend I'll put in the Bilsteins ( they should be
> here by then) and I'm going to replace the stabilizer
> bar link bushings as they were somewhat deformed. I'm
> also planning to replace the large strut-bar bushings,
> I suppose the only way to do that is to remove the
> strut bar from the a-arm.  Then I'm going to have it
> aligned, as I'm sure I'm way off as the van was aligned
> for the H&R springs.
>
> Steve, I don't think you could have done much better -
> the springs seem to be a perfect compromise between
> height, ride and handling.
>
> I'll follow up with the measurements later this week. I
> should have photos by then too.
>
> regards,
> Todd
>
> P.S. I don't recommend replacing springs on a 90+
> degree day!
> ___________
> Subject: Spring Stats:
> Date: 25 Jun 2001 11:30:03 -0700
> From: Ryan Alfonso <ryan_alfonso@ceruscorp.com>
> To: Steve Schwenk <steve@syncro.org>
>
> Hi Steve!  The ride quality on the springs is really
> nice actually, even with the Bilstein's.  Installed on
> the 14th by VolksCafe guys.  The quick measurements
> I've done so far show the rear to be about 1/2 to 3/4
> of an inch higher than the front (assuming equal hight
> of the fender lips). This is WITH the Tiico engine, no
> spare up front, and a full load of propane.  I'm parked
> in a good flat spot at work here to day, so at lunch
> I'll run out and take some accurate measurements and
> get back to you.
>
> I dunno whether it's the springs or the 15" wheels but
> the thing rides like a dream now.  No more of that butt
> puckering when whippin' around a turn.
> ______
>
> Re: Spring Stats:
> Date: 02 Jul 2001 12:51:07 -0700
> From: Ryan Alfonso <ryan_alfonso@ceruscorp.com>
> To:  <steve@syncro.org>
>
> Hi Steve!  Answers!
>
> 1.)  perfect stiffness.  Better feel and control
> without excess harshness.  Between these springs and
> the 15 inch wheels, it's getting closer to being the
> porshce camper I've always dreamed of.
>
> 2.)  didn't do "before" measurements on ride height.
> Seems about the same compared it to other Vanagons.
> [...]
>
> -Ryan
>
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