Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 13:34:34 -0700
Reply-To: Coby Smolens <cobys5@HOME.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Coby Smolens <cobys5@HOME.COM>
Subject: Re: clutch shudder
In-Reply-To: <20010826144602.59317.qmail@web11102.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hey, T-Man -
Your assessment is probably correct, but there are a couple other
possibilities - all of which require removal of the tranny...
Your idea - flywheel: If there was no shudder before the new clutch, then
it's very likely the surface of the flywheel slipping and catching the disk
that is the source of the annoyance. I think this happens when the surface
area of the disk doesn't contact the flywheel across it's entire face
because the flywheel has "eroded" to conform to irregularities in the wear
of the old disk. This surface should definitely be checked for true in the
course of the job, and it's a given (barring miracles) that it'll need to be
resurfaced when the clutch is replaced after a normal service life (100,000+
miles). If you were not crying "poor" when you went in to have the job
done - in other words, gave instructions to do the absolute minimum to get
you on the road again for as little as possible, then this should have been
done. If not included in the original estimate, you should have been
informed of the extra expense. We include it in the original estimate.
Pilot Bearing: Also included in our estimate - it comes in the clutch kit
from Sachs - we always change it. With the flywheel off (no other way to do
it) it takes an extra three minutes (OK, maybe five) to pop out the old one
and tap in the new one if you have the puller for it, including time to
clean out the hole in the crankshaft and add grease to the new bearing
(comes greased, but not adequately). If this was the original pilot bearing
it certainly should be replaced.
Other possibilities: A bad pressure plate (unlikely but it's not impossible
for a new part to be faulty). Unevenly worn fingers on the release shaft
will cause one side of the release bearing to release sooner than the other,
creating the same kind of slip-and-catch symptom caused by an unevenly worn
flywheel. The only way to check or fix this is to pull the tranny. This is a
dealer part and should be replaced on an as needed basis, along with all the
bushings and sleeves that go with it. Because of these "extra" items, and
the additional time to replace them, a complete clutch job can be a $800
proposition (not including hydraulics) done in a shop in a high rent
district...
Good luck - If the folks are reasonable, they'll probably do the thing
again. It might be acceptable for them to charge you for removing and
installing flywheel, seal and o-ring, & pilot bearing, since their price
would have possibly have been higher if they had done these things in the
beginning. They should absorb the tranny R&R, though.
4.5 hours is reasonable time to allow for a complete clutch job, including
everything listed above (hydraulics, add an extra 45 minutes to replace and
bleed master and slave cylinders if the tranny's out of the car anyway).
Flywheel resurfacing depends on the machine shop - from our local machinist
it's $60 (we're in one of the aforementioned high-rent districts).
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM]On Behalf
Of TinkerMan
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 7:46 AM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: clutch shudder
Hello Volks,
I've just had my clutch replaced due to clutch slip.
I've been disappointed to find that now the clutch
shudders quite a bit when released as I used to (my
previous clutch lastde over 6 years, which means I
must know how to keep it alive...).
The shudder seems to be more serious when the motor is
warm.
My solution is to raise the revs a bit and release the
clutch slowly. Clearly, this isn't a solution.
Obviously, the reason seems to be that the dealer
didn't have the flywheel resurfaced.
1. Any ideas from some smart/experienced dudes on the
list? Am I right in my conclusion?
2. If the above is true, then is it reasonable I
demand they do it as part of the clutch replacement
procedure and not charge me again for dismantling and
installing again?
3. At the time, I asked them to replace the pilot
bearing, as recommended by several list members (a
cheap part compared to the clutch replacement cost),
but they said there was no need to (funny. The tranny
has done 170K Km. It seems unwise not to replace it at
the same time). I've heard a faulty pilot bearing
could lead to serious failures in the gear. True?
Should I demand it be done now, on the same occasion?
=====
Cheers,
TinkerMan
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