Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 11:31:08 -0700
Reply-To: Karl Wolz <wolzphoto@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Karl Wolz <wolzphoto@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: Stick to Vanagons?
> OK then, you all can commune and grieve where you will, and I will
> delete as I will. I hate to seem heartless, but this is just not the
> place I would choose to express myself on this.
I feel that I have some good friends on this list, even though I've never
met any of them in person. I'm sure you're not heartless, but choose to
express yourself differently than some of us.
>
> Unfortunately, I think it's inevitable that this will disintegrate
> into another caustic political thrash-about that does not serve this
> group in the least. At that point I guess I'll have to decide whether
> to give up this great and treasured resource for the unworkable
> archive searches.
A well justified fear. TC usually seems to jump in and shut things down a
little while after things get nasty. Hopefully, he'll shut things down
before we have a caravan of Vanagons heading off to Afghanistan.
>
> It's not a request for censorship; it's a request that we remain on
> topic. Surely there are plenty of other forums for your feelings. I
> don't remember the discussion veering off-topic for any other tragic
> and tremendous loss of life -- ever.
Surely there are, but those other forums do not have the same group of folks
that I call friends. Thake a long time to call someone a friend, and I
don't really want to be told that I cannot discuss this with my group of
friends.
Not saying you're wrong. Matter of fact, I think you're right. Cut folks a
bit of slack and I'll come around and support you about 94%.
Karl Wolz
>
> Ed Carroll
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >I cannot disagree with you more. The nature of this list goes beyond mere
> >mechanics of a lump of metal and plastics. I suspect many of us could not
> >truly explain our attractions to these vehicles, and that is precisely
why
> >we remain so devoted to them, and brings us together.
> >
> >In times of horror and grief -- and if you don't feel horror and grief
after
> >yesterday, I have nothing but pity for you -- it's only natural that we
> >reach out to friends and loved ones to bond together. We are undeniably a
> >social creature, and so much of our strength and ability to overcome
> >enormous tragedy lies in that fact.
> >
> >And for many of us, I also suspect that this list is more than purely an
> >informational source...it also provides a connection to people who share
> >something intangible with ourselves. Total strangers? Sure...but
> >nevertheless, there is that bond.
> >
> >I'm not at all suggesting that the list should be flooded with political
> >rhetoric. But to suggest that we ignore the enormous tragedy that affects
> >the entire planet to one degree or another, to mandate that we restrict
our
> >communications to what is ultimately a trivial nature...this, in my
belief,
> >is a suggestion that we deny the kinship many of us feel with the other
> >human beings in this forum.
> >
> >The messages offering assistance, or the messages asking for help in
> >locating missing loved ones, or the messages simply expressing
condolences
> >and support for us all -- if these messages in some way offend you,
disturb
> >you, or distract you, then I suggest you remain silent and delete them.
If
> >you can't understand our desire to reach out, please don't try to censor
it.
> >
> >As I was writing this I learned that a colleague was in Tower 2 and is
still
> >missing. I sit here filled with helpless rage and sadness. And in
ultimate
> >irony, though he is not a list member, he owns a Vanagon -- something
that
> >transcended the impersonal nature of a working relationship and made us
> >friends.
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Malcolm Stebbins" <MSTEBBIN@MSVU1.MSVU.CA>
> >To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> >Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 9:38 AM
> >Subject: Re: Stick to Vanagons?
> >
> >
> >> I agree, STICK TO VANAGONs on this list. Malcolm
> >>
> >> On 12 Sep 2001, at 8:09, Ed Carroll wrote:
> >>
> >> > Politics and revenge and list community generosity are all
> >> > fine topics, but could we stick to Vanagons?
> >> >
> >> > Ed Carroll
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