Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 21:38:49 -0400
Reply-To: Matt F <moby@INFOBLVD.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Matt F <moby@INFOBLVD.NET>
Subject: Re: Ultimate Fix #2
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
Heres some ideas for your next postings;
1) Properly inflating tires
2) Replacing leaky push rod tubes
3) Fixing heater switches
4) Repairing odometers
5) Choosing proper tires
6) Tune-ups on Sink-crow West Fail ya's and deezuls too
7) Properly selecting a DVOM
Matt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alpha Auto Sales" <vanagon@ALPHAAUTOSALES.NET>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 6:26 PM
Subject: Ultimate Fix #2
> Vanagon cooling system bleeding.
>
> I've read the factory recommended method of cooling system bleeding,
> done it many times, many years ago. What a joke! I tried to imagine Quito
> and Alfred driving rows of Vanagons up a ramp in Hanover with a 15 inch
rise
> on it, then yelling back and forth in Yugoslavian or Hungarian, maybe
both,
> all the while coolant spills all over, steam billowing, but this is the
factory,
> so of course there is a recovery gutter underneath. I think not.
> Then I read a method of using vacuum to suck coolant through a cooling
> system in a tech journal and tried it. No Joy. Fabricating a fitting to
> attach where the bleeder screw goes was fruitless, simply no clearance
above
> the bleed hole and the upper radiator mount. Besides, my hand got awfully
> tired operating my hand pumped Mity Vac. And the vacuum was broken when
> disconnecting the marginal fitting I did come up with, no way to maintain
> the column of water (coolant) pressure on removal.
> I then realized a pressure bleed system was more likely what the
factory
> used, how to implement??
> The first version used shop air regulated down to 5 psi through a
> pressure regulator, feeding pressurized coolant in a 5 gallon bottled
water
> bottle through the hose fitting on the pressure cap. Worked well enough,
> still took 45 minutes or so, but on return to the shop after a weekend,
the
> bottle had cracked dumping several gallons of 50/50 Autobahn coolant and
> water on the shop floor. I hate when that happens. The next version was
> built in a Gerry (sp?) Can and worked fine until a less savvy co-worker
> decided the process could happen faster without the regulator and
connected
> 160 psi shop air directly to the Gerry Can. Quick action averted disaster,
> the only damage was a severely swollen Gerry can, but clearly this was not
> the safest method, DON'T TRY IT AT HOME!!
>
> Years later after moving to another shop, the Gerry Can was no longer
> available, nor was the owner interested in funding the fabrication of
> another since VW's were not the main focus of business. I needed another
> method, another one that worked quickly, easily and cleanly.
> I hope this link works, if not, search the Matco site for "funnel" and
> you'll find it, you are looking for the "Spill Free Funnel"
>
http://www.matcotools.com/Catalog/toolcatalog.jsp?cattype=T&cat=2270&page=1&
> #29488
> I had purchased the above listed funnel and found it almost
> indispensable for cooling system filling on most makes of cars, but of
> course it won't fit a VW. But I had long ago bought the proper adapter,
>
http://www.matcotools.com/Catalog/toolcatalog.jsp?cattype=T&select=&cat=2153
> , here you are looking in the "Cooling System Adapters" section for the
> "RADIATOR ADAPTER -VW, AUDI", but I am sure you bargain hunter, DIY types
> already have this tool for dealing with the ridiculous Vanagon cooling
> system.
> ( please note, the URLs above are in no way meant to be a plug or
endorsement
> for
> MATCO Tools. The same or similar tools can likely be found elsewhere.)
(THIS is
> a plug!! I rate MATCO right up there with Snap-On as equal but different.
I
> expect your opinion may differ, I need no flames.)
> Anyway, drill two small holes across the top diameter of the funnel
for
> a welding rod or coat hanger for a hanging support. Hang it from the upper
> lip of the rear lid opening. A trip to the hardware store will get you a 2
> foot or so piece of hose to extend the funnel above the adaptor you have
> screwed to the expansion tank, this hose can be a simple snug, slip fit,
no
> clamps needed or desired, jack the front the recommended 15 inches (or
whatever
> the spec is), making sure the top of the funnel is higher than the bleeder
hole
> up front, and
> fill the system with the engine off. When air stops flowing from the
> bleeder, close the system and drive to operating temperature. Should the
temp
> gauge
> climb rapidly to the top within the first mile or so, you have an air
pocket
> at the thermostat, simply shut off the engine and re-start, it will
usually
> clear, the temp gauge will return to normal. Back to your workspace and
top
> off the expansion and overflow bottles.
>
> A related side note, if you should have your thermostat in hand, drill
> ONE 1/8" hole in the "hat" section of the main body of the thermostat as a
> bleed hole to allow air bubbles to pass easily. On diesels and early
> Wasserboxers, position this hole nearest possible in the upright position,
> later model 'stats lay horizontal, so the position matters not.
>
> I remain puzzled as to why VW decided to abandon the slick brake
bleeder
> type bleed screw found on the diesels if favor of the removable 8mm bolt
> found on the Wasserboxers.
>
> Re: Ultimate Fix #1, I typo'd the year of the Good Dr. *****'s Synchro
> as a 1996, I meant to type 1986, though it may have been a 1987, I can't
> recall. These Microsoft compatible keyboards have a habit of continually
> moving the keys as I type. I was further flamed by Ben T in a "for you
eyes
> only" private e-mail about my spelling of "Synchro". Sorry all, it is not
my
> mis-spelling, rather the intentional illiteracy of some VW marketing hack,
I
> really can't be bothered with such minutiae. Ben T further questioned my
> credibility, that post and this speak for themselves.
>
> I gotta get more coffee now while I ponder a possible topic for
another
> post.
>
> _____________________________________________
>
> Addendum, written several days later:
>
> The problem these tools and procedure address is the need for the
bleeder
> hole in the radiator to be the highest point in the system so that
bubbles,
> hopefully all of them will rise there and escape, is compounded by the
filler
> being lower than the bleeder making the coolant naturally flow out of the
> filler. So VW came up with that ridiculous solution you read in the
manuals of
> running the engine and therefore the pump to force the coolant forward and
up.
> This long funnel procedure accomplishes the same without running the
engine,
> needing an assistant, and all the attendant heat,noise and spill mess.
> Any solution you can devise hardware wise that extends the filler
higher
> than the bleeder while the bleeder remains higher than any other part of
the
> cooling system will accomplish the same. I included the URLs to the funnel
and
> pressure tester adapter to show the tools helpful to anyone doing this
work on a
> regular basis.
> Frankly, I strongly recommend that anyone owning a Vanagon and self
> servicing it own a standard Stant brand pressure tester set, or
equivalent,
> along with the adaptors for both the bottle threads and for the cap. As a
> professional, all major services on all liquid cooled vehicles get a
thorough
> cooling system test, the pressure test being the most fundamental along
with
> hydrometer readings. I haven't used one yet, but I hear the refractometers
are
> even better, certainly they are far more expensive. Recommended best
procedure
> would be to change the coolant annually, please be responsible and recycle
> appropriately.
> Seems that if one could raise the front to the height that would get
the
> bleeder and filler EXACTLY the same height might work well too, but it
would be
> a lot of work to measure out unless you had a perfectly level work
surface.
>
> _________________________
>
> Since I've been Mike Millered in advance, I can really only offer
> speculation about his higher temp gauge readings following a coolant
change in
> his Wastepalia Psyco.
> I learned the hard way many years back that an Audi 5000 Turbo runs 20
> degrees F hotter on straight coolant than on a proper 50/50 mix. While
coolant
> is certainly necessary to raise the boiling point and prevent corrosion,
it
> isn't the best at taking and dissipating heat, therefore the mix. My guess
is
> that diluted coolant weaker than 50/50 may actually cool better than a
correct
> mix, so the stuff you dumped cooled better than fresh, ONLY guessing here
folks
> and presenting as such.
> I have observed this same phenomenon in Vanagoons many times, the temp
gauge
> reading one or two needles width higher following a coolant change with no
ill
> effects. Seems my Westy (A REAL Westy from the Westmoreland plant in PA!!)
does
> the same. Hmm, my gauge is running a little lower than normal, perhaps
it's time
> for fresh coolant!!
>
>
>
> Please no direct replies, use the list, I may reply privately.
>
> Sincerely,
> Ron Austin
> webmaster@alphaautosales.net
> '79 Westmoreland Rabbit
> '71 Chevy C-20
> '74 Gitane Pista
> '98 Specialized Allez
> Jeep Dreams
>
>
> p.s. http://www.alphaautosales.net/vanagon90/index.htm is still
> available........
> p.p.s. I'm still not in Sales, I'm only the webmaster..........
>
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