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Date:         Tue, 27 Nov 2001 08:05:34 -0800
Reply-To:     Shawn Wright <swright@ZUIKO.SLS.BC.CA>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Shawn Wright <swright@ZUIKO.SLS.BC.CA>
Subject:      Re: Transaxle noise (long)
In-Reply-To:  <4.2.0.58.20011127092536.00997100@mail.bright.net>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

On 27 Nov 2001 at 9:42, Angus Gordon wrote:

> My Carat transaxle has begun producing a growl/whine. The pitch of the > sound is relative to the axle speed. Volume depends upon the torque > applied. Vehicle has 183K miles, but I know nothing of it's history before > the last 30K Redline-fed miles. Some diagnostic guesses please ? > > I changed the trans oil last night and the drain-plug had a fair coating of > steel, but not really catastrophic looking (MTL had about 20K miles).

Was there any whine present before you switched to Redline? You report sounds familiar - my '88 Westy had a slight whine when we bought it with 160k km on a VW rebuilt trans. I switched to Redline MTL soon after. It took several years, but only about 25-30k kms before the noise became very pronounced at highway speeds. Then on a long gravel road trip (don't think the gravel was related) a new noise appeared - a clicking upon deceleration in 2nd and 3rd gears (probably 1st and 4th too, but most evident in 2nd and 3rd). Close inspection back home by removing both drive shafts eliminated CVs as the cause. Next step was to take van into Autospiel, who ordered a tear down to replace failed bearings. (main shaft ball bearing was the culprit). I asked Russell to put in Redline MTL, after a long discussion about whether it was suitable (he preferred Pennzoil GL5 dino oil), and checking with Redline to ensure that it was indeed correct. $1200CDN (half of it labour - 10.5 hrs) later, I was on my way. Almost a year, but less than 5000 km later, I was back due to a similar whining noise. Autospiel agreed to dismantle and find the cause, but this time it was not a bearing, instead, the ring and pinion were worn out, with visible roughness on the contact faces of each gear. The end result was that Russell agreed to replace the r&p ($640 CDN) with no labour charge, so I paid only the parts, for another $850 incl taxes. This time I let him use the GL5 oil. At the time I voiced some concern to the list about Autospiel's original reluctance to cover the 2nd labour charge, but in the end, I think he was more than fair, and would not hesitate to recommend them, as they have an excellent reputation in this area.

Anyway, I drove with the GL5 oil dino oil for the summer, and it was fine, but in the fall, the cold shifting was *awful*. So I made another call to Redline to enquire about MTL, and this time was told that MT90 was actually the better oil to use, and that MTL should only be used in very cold climates for the Vanagon trans. Russell @ Autospiel had always maintained that MTL was too thin to protect the hypoid gears in the somewhat unique Vanagon trans, and perhaps he is right. I do know that MTL performs well in fwd VW transaxles, (my Jetta has 450k km on original trans, with the last 200k on MTL), but the fwd models do NOT have a hypoid r&p gear. (except Audis & the Fox I guess)

After this whole thing, I was somewhat unimpressed with Redline for not recommending MT90 in the first place, and starting seeking other oils. I found the Amsoil top of the line trans oil, which is the only oil on the market rated for GL1 through GL5 (yes, GL4 AND GL5), so I tried this. It's only been a year, and with the amount I drive it (only 10k per summer, garaged in the winter), I'll probably never know if Redline MTL had any bearing (pun intended ;-) on the whole issue, or whether the Amsoil is any better (it feels about the same), but I feel better having the best protection I can get. If you plan to use Redline, I would consider choosing MT90 over MTL.

ps: I should also point out that two local VW dealers I called both state that they use Pennzoil 75W90 GL5 non-synthetic for Vanagon applications, the same oil as Autospiel. Perhaps this oil does work well to protect the R&P, but it is awful in the winter, and it's not even that cold around here (0C/32F was about the coldest I drove it in).

Shawn Wright http://zuiko.sls.bc.ca/~swright '85 Jetta TD '88 Westy 2.1L


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