Vanagon EuroVan
Previous messageNext messagePrevious in topicNext in topicPrevious by same authorNext by same authorPrevious page (December 2001, week 3)Back to main VANAGON pageJoin or leave VANAGON (or change settings)ReplyPost a new messageSearchProportional fontNon-proportional font
Date:         Thu, 20 Dec 2001 12:38:37 EST
Reply-To:     FrankGRUN@AOL.COM
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Frank Grunthaner <FrankGRUN@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Boston Bobs day at the dyno
Comments: To: doktortim@rockisland.com, bostneng@fcl-us.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Doctor Tim, nice to see you back.

Many of the sentiments expressed by DrT are close to my own. Clearly the depth of engineering behind the stock setups is unappreciated by many on the list. However, incremental improvements can be made at some pain by the dedicated amateur, as one moves away from the factory compromises and on to a more specific goal (better performance in a particular rpm and load range, better fuel economy at cruise, etc). With fuel injection engines, the traditional enhancements done by hot rodders over the years (all designed to improve the efficiency of the hot air pump we use to propel these vehicles) are harder to properly exploit because of sensors and system limitations.

I applaud Boston Bob for taking the real step of verification of performance. There is no substitute for measurement and the accelerometers genetically implanted in the human buttocks are notoriously nonlinear. The performance improvements often touted on this list remain colorful cracker barrel yarns for the unwary until backed by data. The key to Tectonics Tuning has been the use of a crude engine dyno to follow the effectiveness of engineering modifications. The larger tuning houses generally have their own chassis dyno for product development.

All this aforementioned notwithstanding, there are some lower cost approaches to engine development and tuning. The least expensive is the g-tech accelerometer. While not up to hard power numbers it is an excellent device to compare modifications before going to the dyno. As a relative measure of performance improvement, you only need to know mass and have access to a flat stretch of highway. I use these numbers for most of my initial tuning efforts. Recently though, I have built the Road Dyno kit, which measures the instantaneous velocity of the crank as a function of time. Using a magnetic pickup, knowledge of mass and road speed, and an inexpensive laptop, one can measure the complete torque curve from 1200 to redline with a precision of a few percent. The included software will also permit correction for atmospheric density, temperature and relative humidity. Most recently, my son and I have been tuning his supercharged VR6 ('97 GTi). It is perversely amusing to see the true impact of improvements touted by many tuning groups. Sometimes, on a good day the improvement can be kept to no power loss at all! Watching my self-confident Caltech engineering major (with a 4.3 on 4.0 average) son weep after eight hours of bolting and rebolting has a certain perverse pleasure component.

Boston Robert, I have encountered the lean-at-full-throttle-after-increasing-head-throughput phenomena before. Of course, not on the WB engine. My hat is off to a stronger masochist than I! Anyway, I have encountered several different conditions. The simplest: the full throttle switch not triggered, so the fuel injection system doesn't go open loop. Second case: Air flow meter maxed out, no measured change in the last 20% of the flow range. Now the fuel management computer is just running on its internal map and putting out fuel as function of rpm only. Solution is higher pressure. Larger injectors are not needed for 20% higher airflow. Your observed lack of change with higher rail pressure suggests dirty injectors. Check the spray pattern.

FWIW, I have just had the fuel injectors that I'm using for my turbo Audi 3A project flowed, cleaned and calibrated. Cost was $85 here in the LA area. There was a 35% variation in flow rate before cleaning, now they are matched within 2% up to 85 psi. Patterns now identical.

Third, exhaust air leak near the O2 sensor. Higher flow can draw more atmospheric oxygen to lean exhaust composition.

Some suggestions: O2 sensor based on heated regular Bosch unit is a guide only. Really only accurate in a narrow range above and below stoichiometric. Limited confidence in measured lean and rich AFR. Much preferred is the use of a EGT. This can be placed right at the #1 exhaust port and can easily be monitored for true lean conditions. I routinely monitor the O2 sensor voltage cycling, but only to watch the control loop pattern. If it changed, out comes the oscilloscope! I also monitor the EGT. With the Turbo 3A I will also monitor the fuel pressure in the fuel rail, the injector duty cycle and the signal from the knock sensor.

Don't give up,

Frank Grunthaner


Back to: Top of message | Previous page | Main VANAGON page

Please note - During the past 17 years of operation, several gigabytes of Vanagon mail messages have been archived. Searching the entire collection will take up to five minutes to complete. Please be patient!


Return to the archives @ gerry.vanagon.com


The vanagon mailing list archives are copyright (c) 1994-2011, and may not be reproduced without the express written permission of the list administrators. Posting messages to this mailing list grants a license to the mailing list administrators to reproduce the message in a compilation, either printed or electronic. All compilations will be not-for-profit, with any excess proceeds going to the Vanagon mailing list.

Any profits from list compilations go exclusively towards the management and operation of the Vanagon mailing list and vanagon mailing list web site.