Vanagon EuroVan
Previous messageNext messagePrevious in topicNext in topicPrevious by same authorNext by same authorPrevious page (January 2002, week 1)Back to main VANAGON pageJoin or leave VANAGON (or change settings)ReplyPost a new messageSearchProportional fontNon-proportional font
Date:         Sun, 6 Jan 2002 19:30:07 -0700
Reply-To:     John Klun <jklun@GJ.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         John Klun <jklun@GJ.NET>
Subject:      Re: A Snow Story (Whoa-vanagon!!!) and Lessons Learned
Comments: To: Steve Sullivan <steveis@SPEAKEASY.ORG>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Steve-

I commiserate and empathize with you. I was also under the impression that my Vanagon would be fantastic on ice and snow- just like the old beetles. Boy! What a crock that is! I regaled this list with my snow episode back in Oct 2000. Like you, my rear end (van's) whipped around to the left too fast for me to stop it and took me over the edge. Luckily, there were some bushes that stopped my very long 'ride' down a steep hill. A coupla feet to the right and it it would have been bye bye. My '91 Aerostar had better traction on snow 'n ice without snow tires than the vanagon. Thank Heaven there isn't a whole lotta snow where I live.

Steve Sullivan wrote:

> Once Upon a Time, just last week. . . . > > . . . Two friends went snow camping north of Whistler, BC. With his fairly > new Michelin Agilis tires (Mud and Snow rated) our hero felt confident > driving the snowy road, though getting stuck twice on nearly flat parking > lots made him wonder. Wasn't his Westy supposed to be superior in snow and > ice because all the weight is over the drive axle? > > Then came New Years Day, almost their last. > > They were slowly coming down the steep 11% grade of the road to Lilloolet > when, starting to round a hairpin curve, the van suddenly started sliding > sideways! He hadn't even touched the brakes, had he? > > Before our hero could do anything the van was at the point of no return, > where the engine's weight would pull the van completely around and they'd > spin out of control (at a sedate 10 mph) toward either the concrete barrier > or a deep ditch! > > Now our intrepid driver is quite experienced in snow and ice: he dumped the > clutch, frantically steered into the slide, and threw liberal curses all > around. But it looked to him that it was way too late. > > Just what miracle of conditions or intervention or curses caused the wheels > to grip enough to make the corner can only be speculated. But now our > normally sanguine hero was slightly nervous and braked (slid) enough to stab > the transmission into first. > > "We'll go down nice and slow and in control now," he thought. > > He thought wrong. > > Now next to a sheer drop-off hundreds of feet down on one side with no guard > rail, and the deep ditch on the other, the van started sliding straight down > the hill. What the?!? Must be so slippery that the back pressure caused by > engine compression is causing the tires to lose their grip. Hmmm. Never had > that happen. Darn. > > At this point, the van, and the two friends, are sliding straight down an > 11% grade. Can't slow down using the engine. Can't slow down using the > brakes. Can't slow down. In fact, this is the first time our hero had seen > the speedometer go over 20 mph (and rising) in first gear! > > Oh, and that ditch and the sheer cliff are still there and another hairpin > curve is only a hundred feet ahead. . . > > "An interesting mental exercise," he thought, "but I've got to do something. > And now." > > Pumping the brakes actually worked enough to get around the hairpin, and the > next, and the next, and all the way to the bottom of the hill. > > "Whew," he thought. > > "Whew," his friend thought. > > "Whew," anyone still reading this thought. > > And the moral of this story is. . . > > 1) Though the Michelin Agilis is the only tire with a high enough weight and > inflation rating for the heavy Westy, and though it's rated as a Mud and > Snow tire, it works like Shinola in any snowy, icy, or slick situation > (except rain, where they excel). > > 2) Hills with any amount of snow or ice? Always chain up!! I didn't even > tell the story of what happened later, and the chaining up saga. The > conditions were no problem for any other car, even with all-season tires > only. The weight of the vanagon requires too much power to pull up hills, > causing the drive wheels to lose traction, or to need more braking effort > which is more likely to cause a loss of traction. > > 3) Be aware that if your rear starts sliding sideways (ahem, the van's), the > greater weight back there will cause you to lose control and spin far, far > faster than in any other front-engined rear wheel drive vehicle. Drive > appropriately and if in doubt, whip it out (the chains). > > 4) Remember, the speedometer connects to the front wheel (left) and if it > dips suddenly it means your front wheels are locked up (you're braking too > much). The tachometer connects to the rear wheels (drive train) and if it > dips it means your rear wheels are locked up (too much braking again), or if > it jumps wildly up, you're spinning your wheels (too much power). > > 5) Be careful. Slide into the ditch (or another car) and bend the unibody on > a vanagon and I'll bet the repairs are so expensive your insurance will > probably just total the van and you'll lose your beloved. > > Maybe now it's time to buy 15" wheels so I can put some REAL snow tires on > this thang. How about it, how does the vanagoingsideways handle with snow > tires? Better? Reports from those with experience welcomed. I've never had > trouble like this in any other vehicle I've driven, so it was a surprise to > say the least. > > Steve > > Calvin, the slippery 1984 Westy > Hobbes, the imaginary Westy Syncro


Back to: Top of message | Previous page | Main VANAGON page

Please note - During the past 17 years of operation, several gigabytes of Vanagon mail messages have been archived. Searching the entire collection will take up to five minutes to complete. Please be patient!


Return to the archives @ gerry.vanagon.com


The vanagon mailing list archives are copyright (c) 1994-2011, and may not be reproduced without the express written permission of the list administrators. Posting messages to this mailing list grants a license to the mailing list administrators to reproduce the message in a compilation, either printed or electronic. All compilations will be not-for-profit, with any excess proceeds going to the Vanagon mailing list.

Any profits from list compilations go exclusively towards the management and operation of the Vanagon mailing list and vanagon mailing list web site.