Date:         Wed, 23 Jan 2002 11:07:26 -0600
Reply-To:     Chris Mills <scmills@TNTECH.EDU>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Chris Mills <scmills@TNTECH.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Old Car Scrappage Bullshit Alert
In-Reply-To:  <F203oGdKO8FNpyLAPDV000090b5@hotmail.com>
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>I think that there would be a lot of value in taking some old junkers off
>the road.  Car & Driver had an article on this a few months ago, and IIRC
>they found that this would be a lot cheaper method of cleaning up the air
>than any possible improvements to new cars, because of the huge amount of
>tailpipe pollutants which are produced by poorly maintained older cars.

Remember the car mags exist because the car manufacturers advertise in
them. Read them long enough and  even the articles seem to have a slant in
the industry's favor.

They write that it is cheaper to get the old cars off the road than
cleaning up the news ones - remember the car manufacturers would be selling
more new cars and making more and more money. They would love to see this
happen. It makes them rich.

If you do a little reading you'll see how over the years the car
manufacturers hedged alot about changes which cost them alot of money to
develop and implement and were eager to help any cause which put new cars
they made on the road. Our American economy is built around selling and
maintaining American built cars. Our tariff system is designed that way.
Everything is aimed at domestic front engined and large vehicles. If we
were really worried about the environment there would be a long list of
laws based on the true environmental impact of a vehicle during it's
lifespan - both in fuel and in materials. Big taxes on big vehicles and so on.

Don't get me wrong - I don't care what you drive - it's your buck. As long
as you are driving a vehicle which is safe - for me - one that doesn't
endanger me and mine. A good idea would be the cars of the late sixties
that could not maneuver or stop because the suspension and brakes were so
poor. There aren't as many of these out there anymore on a regular basis
and I'm glad to see the custom crowd investing in better parts for these cars.

Glad modern cars have evolved towards better brakes and suspensions.

Ever wonder why we don't get the clever little cars from Europe? There are
many reasons I'm sure but it isn't b/c they aren't safe or clean enough or
fast enough. At one time yes, but no more. They are our cars' equals these
days. Of course the big American manufacturers wouldn't make money on them.
As far fetched as it seems I wouldn't doubt that the U.S. car manufacturers
didn't have a hand in the idea that big SUV vehicles are safer.

I think the situation reaches far beyond whether the old cars are dirtier
than the new ones. I think with some objective historical perspective you
see the situation is much broader and complicated than dirty versus clean.

>Car & Driver's recommendation was to institute mobile sniffer units, to
>track down those vehicles which are producing a lot of pollution.  The
>owners could be given the choice of bringing it up to the standard it had
>when new, or turning it in for a scrapping fee.  They wouldn't be cruising
>the back roads in Idaho, but would be looking in the cities where the
>problem is concentrated.
>
>It sounds like the government is going to take a simpler approach, which is
>typical, but will make it a lot harder on hobbyists.  If you are going to
>write your congress critter about this, I would recommend proposing an
>alternative, rather than just opposing the plan.

I think getting the obvious polluters' cars fixed to OEM specs would be
great but eventually to justify their existence - after most of the cars
are repaired - the inspector/politicians go after the enthusiast cars...

Most folks get into their cars, turn the key and go. They don't care for
them, they don't repair them, and as long as it goes they don't give it a
thought. Most make it to 100K+ miles and get tossed in the junkyard.

Let's let time take care of the gross polluters. These cars wear out and
break down sooner or later and get replaced.

I really don't care about the existing system of regulations. They work and
baby steps towards better and tighter restrictions are great. I just hate
the smoke and mirrors routine, the lies and attempt to steer our government
in their favor. I would like an objective system please.

How about changing the rules that measures how much gross pollution a
vehicle makes in it's lifetime and not just how much "parts per million of
pollution" they make. I'm sure a modern heavy V-8 SUV is making more
pollution than a modern economy car simply because more fuel and more air
is being pushed through the engine. How about rules to make the heavy
vehicles cleaner too? That's what the big car manufacturers don't want
anyone discussing. Smoke and mirrors - draw attention to getting the old
cars off the road (and get new car sales moving) which will lead to cleaner
air they say and don't mention the modern gas hogs...

How many Mavericks, Transporters, Vanagons, vintage Beetles or Camaros are
racking up 20K miles a year nowadays anyhow? How about cleaning up big
industry. There are so many angles to the issue...

Off my soap box and on with the nomex...




Chris M. <Busbodger - "TEAM SLOWPOKE">
Cookeville, Tennessee

ICQ# 5944649
scm9985@tntech.edu

'78 VW Westfalia (67 HP -> that is...67 Hamster Power)
'65 Beetle - Type IV powered
'99 CR-V AWD station wagon
'81 CB900 Custom moto-chickle
2.5 Corvair engines for my Trans-vair Conversion

FOR SALE:       Early model Corvair engine - needs bell housing and exhaust
- $100
                 5 Beauty rings for 13" wheels, very nice, no dents, packed
ready to go, $40 (was my cost)