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Date:         Tue, 19 Feb 2002 00:56:31 EST
Reply-To:     FrankGRUN@AOL.COM
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Frank Grunthaner <FrankGRUN@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: distilled water & wbx reliabilty
Comments: To: cchiang1@yahoo.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

I have missed most of this thread since, in my estimation, it has merited the injudicious use of the delete key. As has all too much on list traffic recently!

But a few points must be made here (and I am repeating info from individuals laboring to infuse the discussion with facts):

1. All water, not pathologically purified and stored under nitrogen or argon, will contain a variety of salts ranging from simple carbonic acid equilibria through the simple halides to dissolved divalent cations and even a variety of transition metals depending on the source and the storage media.

2. All antifreeze formulations take this into account and have a number of chemicals in the primary solution so that pH and the dissolution chemistry of aluminum, copper and iron are kept under control. The salts or hydrolyzed ions that define hard water can complex or remove these reagents. The reagents are often attacked by dissolved oxygen carries in the cooling system.

3. The amount of control (translated into how long the additives protect the cooling system from the effects of pH and aluminum oxidation) is a function of how hard the starting water is and how much oxygen is injected into the cooling system over time.

4. When the complexation agents are depleted (or evaporated to dryness in a fixed air bubble in the water jacket of the head (example) a hard and generally insoluble precipitate results. Film, scum, bad. This deposit conducts heat poorly and often triggers cavitation. Bad.

5. Most dissolution of block, head or other multimetal components (water pump) is triggered by pH changes or electrochemical redox reactions. Aluminum is particularly vulnerable to attack with basic solutions (pH 10 and higher). Copper is more readily attacked in acidic solutions, while iron goes either way.

6. The singly most corrosive reagent in this system is ultraclean water. Ultraclean water at elevated temperatures will dissolve Teflon, silicon dioxide, silicon nitride, silicon carbide, hafnium nitride, etc., etc. Ultraclean water is literally free of ions (sub-picomolar), carbon residues (sub ppb) and dissolved gases such as CO2 and O2.

7. So for longevity, use water of moderate hardness (5 grains or less - ask your water company) or filtered water as provided for steam iron applications to mix the 50-50 solution with and Al compatible antifreeze. Bleed well (remove air pockets). Vent to an expandable bladder cell (stops the introduction of oxygen and CO2) with emergency pressure relief. For best results, use a gasifier and deareate the cooling system while bleeding.

8. Switch to the Evans propylene glycol system and get rid of all this nonsense (for a price).

RO systems good! Superstition bad! Down with political correctness! Chemistry good, lawyers are politically correct.

Need sleep.

Frank Grunthaner


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