Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 22:37:49 -0900
Reply-To: Mike Moery <mike.moery@ACSALASKA.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Mike Moery <mike.moery@ACSALASKA.NET>
Subject: Re: distilled water & wbx reliability
In-Reply-To: <144.9c2c5a5.29a3430f@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Your suggestion to use the Evans propylene glycol piqued my interest, as
I hadn't heard of it. After having checked out Evans website, I'm very
interested! Do you, or anyone else on the list, have any firsthand
experience with this waterless coolant? After reading the technical
literature on their site, it seems to me that this kind of product might
be just the thing for anyone with a WBX, due to it's non-corrosive
nature, not to mention the fact that it requires no pressurization. Not
a bad idea for my diesel either, if it can save me from ever having to
replace my coolant tank and hoses.
-Mike Moery
Anchorage, AK
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'Ol Bessie '82TD Westy
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] On Behalf
Of Frank Grunthaner
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 8:57 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: distilled water & wbx reliabilty
I have missed most of this thread since, in my estimation, it has
merited the
injudicious use of the delete key. As has all too much on list traffic
recently!
But a few points must be made here (and I am repeating info from
individuals
laboring to infuse the discussion with facts):
1. All water, not pathologically purified and stored under nitrogen or
argon,
will contain a variety of salts ranging from simple carbonic acid
equilibria
through the simple halides to dissolved divalent cations and even a
variety
of transition metals depending on the source and the storage media.
2. All antifreeze formulations take this into account and have a number
of
chemicals in the primary solution so that pH and the dissolution
chemistry of
aluminum, copper and iron are kept under control. The salts or
hydrolyzed
ions that define hard water can complex or remove these reagents. The
reagents are often attacked by dissolved oxygen carries in the cooling
system.
3. The amount of control (translated into how long the additives protect
the
cooling system from the effects of pH and aluminum oxidation) is a
function
of how hard the starting water is and how much oxygen is injected into
the
cooling system over time.
4. When the complexation agents are depleted (or evaporated to dryness
in a
fixed air bubble in the water jacket of the head (example) a hard and
generally insoluble precipitate results. Film, scum, bad. This deposit
conducts heat poorly and often triggers cavitation. Bad.
5. Most dissolution of block, head or other multimetal components (water
pump) is triggered by pH changes or electrochemical redox reactions.
Aluminum
is particularly vulnerable to attack with basic solutions (pH 10 and
higher).
Copper is more readily attacked in acidic solutions, while iron goes
either
way.
6. The singly most corrosive reagent in this system is ultraclean water.
Ultraclean water at elevated temperatures will dissolve Teflon, silicon
dioxide, silicon nitride, silicon carbide, hafnium nitride, etc., etc.
Ultraclean water is literally free of ions (sub-picomolar), carbon
residues
(sub ppb) and dissolved gases such as CO2 and O2.
7. So for longevity, use water of moderate hardness (5 grains or less -
ask
your water company) or filtered water as provided for steam iron
applications
to mix the 50-50 solution with and Al compatible antifreeze. Bleed well
(remove air pockets). Vent to an expandable bladder cell (stops the
introduction of oxygen and CO2) with emergency pressure relief. For best
results, use a gasifier and deareate the cooling system while bleeding.
8. Switch to the Evans propylene glycol system and get rid of all this
nonsense (for a price).
RO systems good! Superstition bad! Down with political correctness!
Chemistry
good, lawyers are politically correct.
Need sleep.
Frank Grunthaner
