Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 13:25:37 -0500
Reply-To: "G. Matthew Bulley" <gmbulley@BULLEY-HEWLETT.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: "G. Matthew Bulley" <gmbulley@BULLEY-HEWLETT.COM>
Organization: Bulley-Hewlett
Subject: Re: Sound deadening
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020225090248.025007d0@gemini.tntech.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Take this with a grain of salt--
If asphalt walking pads, roofing felt, roofing rubber, wheat straw,
Horse Hair, or any other non-automotive material were the best option
for sound-deadening in your VW over the long term, automotive
manufactures would use these materials. I get 2-5 e-mails a week from
the site, from people who have *discovered* that "...XYZ material is
almost exactly the same as using Q-pads, but it costs less..." I kid you
not, I had a guy e-mail and ask about using straw and tar for noise/rust
proofing.
If you are concerned about rust, weight, or quality of service over the
long term, use automotive grade materials (Q-pads, dynamats, etc.). If
your primary concern is cost, your options are nearly limitless,
including tar and straw, but don't whine later when your van is rusty,
stinky, or 300lbs heavier.
Further, you are smart to beware of "made by the same company as..."
claims... it doesn't imply anything; Litton makes nuclear missile
guidance systems, as well as coffeemakers, very different products for
very different market segments. Their coffeemakers will not survive
re-entry, and their GPS stuff makes bad java.
When in doubt about ANY major modification to your car body (for noise,
rust, or heat) go to the junkyard. Find a late model Mercedes, Lexus,
Infinity, or Cadillac. Take note of the type and quality of materials
used on/in the body. Take note of the techniques.
Developing business and guiding change since 1996,
G. Matthew Bulley
Bulley-Hewlett
Corporate Communications
Business: www.bulley-hewlett.com
Alliance: www.ntara.com
Call tollfree: +1.877.658.1278
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] On Behalf
Of Chris Mills
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 4:03 AM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Sound deadening
I worried about that too. The stuff in the doors wouldn't matter since
there is a layer of plastic and upholstery. In the nose of course it
would
because nothing separates it from the passenger compartment.
I've heated this stuff and put it into closed areas for several months
prior to using it and I cannot smell it.
My first car ('66 Mustang) way back when was fast returning itself to
the
Earth in the form of a rusty dust. We welded in some new panels and I
used
roofing tar to seal the welds (we spot welded it vs. solid welding) to
keep
water out of the floors. That stuff REALLY stunk but after a while the
stink faded - even on hot days.
I would not suggest roofing tar (unless applied tot he outside of the
car)
but there are many other materials related to roof repairs that I would
give a chance to. You can always seal roofing materials like my walk
pads
inside plastic sheeting.
In short whatever works for you.
At 05:39 AM 2/23/02 -0500, you wrote:
>That asphalt based stuff smells like asphalt when it gets hot...may be
cheap
>but not a good way to go.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Chris Mills" <scmills@TNTECH.EDU>
>To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 8:39 AM
>Subject: Re: Sound deadening
>
>
> > I'm working my way through my '78 Westy with a large roll of asphalt
> > walking pad material. It is not self-adhesive but the price is
right. I
> > paid $45 for a roll large enough to do my Westy and my Beetle.
> >
> > I'm using commercial upholstery adhesive and I recommend a heat gun
or a
> > torch to heat this heat to get it to lay flat. I had little trouble
inside
> > the nose of the van and lot's of trouble in the doors. I cut the
pieces
> > smaller to fit around the internal ribs and such. I was careful not
to
> > obstruct the drains in the bottom of the doors.
> >
> > The fellow that sold it to me showed me that one side is covered
with a
> > thin cellophane that you remove leaving a softer tar face that can
be
> > heated for adhesion. As I mentioned above, I was using glue. It
works fine
> > b/c where it is done properly I doubt I could pull it off but where
it did
> > not adhere properly it was my fault (dirty surface).
> >
> > So far I have just done the inside of the doors and nose and let me
tell
> > you the difference is amazing. I have not driven the van yet - very,
very
> > slow progress on this project - but when you close the door it
sounds like
> > a vehicle much more expensive. When you thumb the body it is much
more of
>a
> > deep thump. \
> >
> > When I used to close the doors (newly rebuilt by me window mechanism
and
> > latch) they would not rattle but quite light. Certainly like a 55
gallon
> > drum. I hope to eliminate the drumming of the sheet metal, dampen
any
>noise
> > created by rain on the outside of the Westy's nose, and the echo's
will be
> > killed by nicer upholstered door panels. A friend simply upholstered
her
> > door panels all the way through the van with a positive result over
the
> > vinyl that they were.
> >
> > Now take this with a touch of salt or two (or more) but the fellow I
>bought
> > my material from said that is was made by the same company that
made
> > Dynamat. I can usually tell when I'm being B.S.'ed but this time I
was not
> > sure.
> >
> > I'd like to hear your opinion: I've read the Hewlett-Bulley site and
I'm
> > worried that his methods would lead to rust despite his concerns
>mentioned.
> > I know VW - actually Westfalia put fiberglass in the walls of the
van but
> > isn't anything likely to lead to rust that could hold moisture.
> >
> > I plan on sealing the top and side of the joint between the
materials I
> > used to soundproof my doors and walls and eventually floors with
Waxoyl,
> > leaving the bottom edge to drain and maybe aid in breathing a bit.
> >
> > And yes, I'm a bit behind on my list mail as usual.
> >
> >
> >
> > Chris M. <Busbodger - "TEAM SLOWPOKE">
> > Cookeville, Tennessee
> >
> > ICQ# 5944649
> > scm9985@tntech.edu
> >
> > '78 VW Westfalia (67 HP -> that is...67 Hamster Power)
> > '65 Beetle - Type IV powered
> > '99 CR-V AWD station wagon
> > '81 CB900 Custom moto-chickle
> > 2.5 Corvair engines for my Trans-vair Conversion
> >
Chris M. <Busbodger - "TEAM SLOWPOKE">
Cookeville, Tennessee
ICQ# 5944649
scm9985@tntech.edu
'78 VW Westfalia (67 HP -> that is...67 Hamster Power)
'65 Beetle - Type IV powered
'99 CR-V AWD station wagon
'81 CB900 Custom moto-chickle
2.5 Corvair engines for my Trans-vair Conversion