Date:         Tue, 26 Mar 2002 22:47:31 -0500
Reply-To:     Robert Donalds <bostneng@FCL-US.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Robert Donalds <bostneng@FCL-US.NET>
Subject:      Re :On Longevity,
              Displacement Efficiency and Technology in Conversions
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Frank 
you are my hero 
I dearly wish I could think in a straight line as you do and hold a train of thought to its conclusion
I blame the sixties and the seventies for my inadequacy's ok the eighties too 

Frank wrote in part 
>Longevity of engines as a function of size and vehicle they are mounted >in. If intelligently maintained 
>engine failure is metallurgical and is directly related to the work done
>So, lifetime of any modern engine is directly related to the work you >require that it generate during your ownership period. Period.
 I agree haven seen the remains of many engines and hearing the tales of how the engine was treated and what work it was asked to do 
my example would be the Zambonis 7000 pds of ice resurfacer. some use single port bug engines some use the 1.8 golf jetta engines mostly propane at this point. Depending on how well it's tuned, by who and how the resurfacers are driven and at what RPM they come out of the turns you can destroy and engine in short order months or you can get years out of a single engine. Some rinks rats take pride in needing a new engine every year. 
    I have also come to the conclusion that any engine that has been in service in a Zamboni is junk and I will not take one back as a core for any reason they just contaminate my core supplies. The propane engine parts always look like new no varnish to be seen ever but the blocks are cracked the crank main lines are off a mile. Zamboni engines and engine parts are defiantly not infinitely rebuidable

Frank also wrote in part 
>of the various engines that could power these bricks through the ether. 

I am a fan of the VW engine and have not strayed to far a field
I have driven only one tiico conversion and found it lacking in low end and mid range power with lots of top end. In my opinion the vans need more low and mid range power not more top end. My other observation was that in order to make the van get up and go I needed to give the engine over half throttle I felt like a kid in dads car my legs where not long enough to reach the pedals or least to short to get the gas pedal to the floor board  The conversion van had lost allot of drivablity. I define drivability as directly related to the work it requires that you generate as you drive during your ownership period.  ( I stole that last line from Frank and played with it some )

frank also wrote in part (and I added some to it)  
> Engine modifications vs. power - fact and >fiction
( I added this next part ) and how much spare time do you really have to redesign something that was not so bad to begin with and what makes you think you can best the engineers that got paid to work on it all day long for weeks on end 
> .I've watched the high lift rocker game lead to the same or lower #s >Unless a set of modifications are given with
>before and after numbers they are nothing more or less than a good >animated fantasy
well said 
I have spent a fair amount of time over the years on the dyno mine and other peoples testing engine mods. most of the changes I was sure would make more power did not. The other thing that makes dyno testing somewhat lacking in my book is that dyno testing is always done at full throttle. that's the way I drive on the street NOT  I have also built and campaigned scca formula vees race cars and won races. I can tell you how many times the other drivers said "get out of my way when the flag drops". But when the green flag drops the bull shit stops the #s don't lie and they did not win the race.  Also the seat of the pants as a way to test means almost nothing when you have your ego sitting next to you in the passenger seat prodding you on. yah that was better sure it was.

    I like the stock vanagon engines I have never lost a head gasket in six years and countless miles. The 2.1 engine winds right up in third gear and gets me right out in traffic. Yes I have modified the vanagon engines with big valves small cam changes and intake mods and then tried to test the changes. Frank is right hard facts are hard to come by. I can say I am very happy with the increased drivablity the big valve engine has. I will continue to gather info and when I have something to share that is more than my ego strutting around like a peacock I will share it. The testing I have to date is mostly pretty paper because the needed comparisons aren't there.
stay tuned race fans 
I remain
Boston Bob
 http://www,bostonengine.com