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Date:         Sun, 7 Apr 2002 12:47:13 -0500
Reply-To:     Stan Wilder <wilden1@JUNO.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Stan Wilder <wilden1@JUNO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Boston Bobs tale of an engine stripper or .19  Main bearing
              info             was Flickerin oil light on 85 auto
Comments: To: wolzphoto@WORLDNET.ATT.NET
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Karl. Sounds like your horse has left the barn already. As for me I'd set the idle up just a little bit and run 20/50 to get that false sense of security you need while saving up for a new engine. If you don't have other problems you might stretch another 20K out of that engine.

Stan Wilder 83 Air Cooled Westfalia

On Sun, 7 Apr 2002 10:29:35 -0700 Karl Wolz <wolzphoto@WORLDNET.ATT.NET> writes: > Bob, > > Great article. Only problem is you never answered the original > question > about oil viscosity! > > I've been advised to never use multi vis oils (yes - a long time > ago) and > also that modern low vis oils are not the best for the relatively > low tech > vw engines we use. The chart in the owner's manual does not go > above 100 > deg F., and I live in Phoenix (land of 110 - 115), so I use 30 > weight in the > winter and go to 40 weight in the summertime. I use Valvoline > Racing Oil > exclusively. > > Your comments on out of round journals and related OP problems tend > to go > hand in hand with my use of the 40 weight. > > Comments? > > Thanks, > > Karl Wolz > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Donalds" <bostneng@FCL-US.NET> > To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> > Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2002 9:33 AM > Subject: Boston Bobs tale of an engine stripper or .19 Main bearing > info was > Flickerin oil light on 85 auto > > > > > > > > Mike wrote > > My 85 westy is a new one to me. my first wasser at that. it's got > 168,000 > with 75,000 on a rebuilt engine. My first oil change is coming up. > Can > anyone suggest a particular oil and or viscosity for use during the > hot > summer months? > > Mike and fellow vanagon types > > In my time I have taken a couple of 1.9 engines apart and I would > like to > share with you some of the things I have seen and learned. Most 1.9 > engines > are pretty tired by the time I get them in fact they are mostly > turned in > cores in exchange for fresh rebuilds but some come from stripped > vans that > had other problems. The one thing that is consistent in all 1.9 > engines is > that the crank bore in the case are out of spec. The specifications > for the > crankshaft bore size and the amount bearing crush is not listed in > any book > I have seen. This leaves allot of room for a judgment call based on > past > experience or advise from others and lack of other options. Some > would tell > you that if the bearing sits in the web and seems tight then that's > OK and > if the engine does not bind when you tighten the case bolts then you > are > good to go. Now we are getting to the difference between going threw > an > engine and rebuilding an engine. As I said not knowing the specs > makes the > job a little tricky so in order to understand the intent of the > manufacturer > I have looked back at some of the older engine specs to see if there > is any > details that we can use to interpret the intent of those who > designed the > WBX engine. The type 2/4 engine and the bug engine do have specs for > the > case bores and wear limits listed in the without guesswork book. The > without > guesswork book was handed out to techs as they went threw the > dealer > training programs back in the sixties and seventies. As it turns out > there > is some good info we can use to determine the intent of the > designers of the > WBX engines. First the nose bearing is the same on all flat 4 vw > engines > since 1961 right threw to the 91 WBX engine. The size of the bore > for the > nose bearing is 50 mm to 50.03 mm. and the wear limit is 50.04 mm. > The next > thing I noticed is that the Main bearings bore sizes are all in > round > numbers. Yah got to love those Germans need for order and > straightforward > simplicity. The two middle main bearings bores are in fact the same > size on > the bug main bearings bores as they are on the 1.9 WBX engine and > that is 65 > mm. with a wear limit of 65.03 mm. The type 2/4 main bearings bores > are the > same bore size as the rear main WBX bearing no big surprise! ( no > its not > the same bearing ) The rear main bearing bore for the type 2/4 > engine is 70 > mm with a wear limit of 70.03 mm. With all of that in mind we can > now go > back and look at the WBX block and use these dimensions to determine > the > condition of the used 1.9 cases. The next dimensions we need to > determine if > the case is in useable condition is the actual size of the bearings > and then > we can do the math and determine the bearing crush IF ANY!!! > > At this point I am going to repeated the statement I made at the > beginning > of this rant. The one thing that is consistent in all 1.9 engines is > that > the crank bore in the case are out of spec. With that said I can > tell you > that the new OEM 1.9 bearings I still have on the shelve (no they > are not > for sale so don't ask) are 3 ths or .12 mm larger than the main > bearing bore > specs I have listed above. So with all this we can do the math and > see that > the case crush on the bearing is intended to be between .002ths. > And > .003ths. > > When the bearings do not have the proper crush or the bearings are > loose in > the block as is the case with older high mileage WBX engines and > with engine > that have just been redone rather than rebuilt then the engine will > have > low oil pressure at warm idle. > > Measuring the WBX block to determine the size of the crank bore > can't be > done without a good bore micrometer and a lot of practice. The other > thing I > has noticed is that the case halves tent not to bolt together as > intended. > The WBX block has two locating pins as do all VW air and > water-cooled flat 4 > engines this is done to hold the block in place so it can be > machined and so > the halves will return to there machined position when assembled. > Over time > the case halves do shift you can in fact feel the shift at the > parting line > when a used case is bolted and torqued together without any bearings > in > place. The case shift is commonly .002 to .005 ths. at the parting > line and > this can vary from end to end. I have tried to use a block of wood > and > hammer to align the halves as I bring the case halves together > before I > align bore with limited success and have had to developed tooling do > get the > cases halves back where they belong in order to align bore. This is > important because when the case is not properly centered the cam > bore and > oil pump bores will be permanently misaligned by the new bearings in > the > nice round holes for the main bearing once we align bore the crank > bore. One > other note about used 1.9 blocks is that the thrust surface takes a > pounding > and the new main bearings can be loose and the case needs a thrust > cut. You > bug types might remember that the bug blocks commonly needed the > thrust cut > to keep the rear main bearing from moving. > > Now that I have told you all this great info on 1.9 cases and > bearings I > need to tell you that the nice folks at Kolbenschmdt have not > produced Main > bearings for the 1.9 WBX engine for the last 3 years. There has > been no > news from across the big pond as to when they intend to make a > production > run if ever. The demand has not diminished so a few brave soles have > started > making 1.9 rear main bearings and using the bug bearings for the > other mains > bearings. I at first did not want to use these custom made bearings > for fear > of the dreaded unknown. As time went by and fellows like Jim > Digennaro > former editor of limbo needed main bearings we got brave and tried a > set or > two more than a year ago and now many more sets and the engines are > still > going strong with no signs of any oil pressure issues. > > I have also in the last year made changes to my boring bar that > allows me > to align bore and thrust cut 1.9 .20 and 2.1 engine blocks and I now > offer > these services hear at the engine exchange. I also stock 1.9 main > bearings > in most common dimensions and I have also had made 20 and 40 over > and thrust > cut bearings for the discrimination engine builder. > > Be aware that with some aftermarket bearing the tolerances are not > what they > should be and the bug bearing set aren't much better so measure > measure and > remeasure and remember that they say about assuming > > All rights reserved > > Bob Donalds > > Boston Engine Exchange > > The Engine Exchange Deluxe > > http://www.bostonengine.com >

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