Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 11:31:48 -0500
Reply-To: Bruce Nadig <motorbruce@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Bruce Nadig <motorbruce@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Broken New Engine, What is fair resolution?
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
I'm not sure if I can offer a final solution for this problem, but I can use
it to illustrate a point. I have bee in the car business for a while now and
I see this problem more than I would like.
It has been my experience that it is almost always best for your mechanic to
obtain the parts needed to repair your car. I say this because when warranty
issues come up you will have a single point of contact to resolve your
problems. The mechanic can't say, "Well, it is the other guy's fault." It
was the mechanic that selected the parts to install. He has some obligation
to use quality parts. If there is a problem, it is then up to him to get
them sorted out.
In addition to getting burned by the situation below, your mechanic is
losing money in another way. Every shop I know of makes money on the parts
they sell. The profit on these parts is part of the income they rely upon to
maintain their cost structure. In a sense, your mechanic got shortchanged on
the job because he didn't get his cut of the parts. Here is a simple way of
thinking of it: do you ever take food to a restaurant and ask them to
prepare it for you? Please don't say that it is apples and oranges. It
isn't. It is a pretty strong parallel. If you were to be unhappy with the
meal the chef could blame it on the ingredients you supplied.
I don't think it is fair for the mechanic to have to pull the engine again
and do a free install of another engine. In your original post you said that
you believe that the problem is a hairline crack in the head. Why should the
mechanic be responsible for the labor on a part that you supplied to him?
If you do buy a part like a rebuilt engine and take it to your mechanic,
find out about the warranty before you make the purchase. The seller should
be very clear about who is responsible for R&R labor, shipping, diagnostics,
etc. should something go wrong.
If you felt that the mechanic overcharged you by $600 you should have
addressed that issue with him at the time you had to pay the bill. In most
states there are laws about how close the actual bill must be to the
estimate. For example, in Texas the bill for the repair cannot exceed the
estimate by more than 10% (assuming things were properly diagnosed and no
other problems were found). If your mechanic found that he had to do
something differently that would drastically change the price he should have
contact you before be went ahead and did the extra work.
I don't mean to knock anyone here. Instead I hope that everyone will gain a
little useful perspective for the next time they need to have major work
performed.
Bruce
Original Post:
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As I am very near the end of my warranty period(s), and the rising coolant
mystery can be attributed to nothing other than a combustion chamber breech,
I need to make a decision about the van and its new engine. I am caught
between two parties, both of whom point the finger at the other, and I am
trying to find a fair course of action.
The Story:
New Custom Rebuilt Motor last summer, ran fine for 5000 miles, and then
rising coolant showed up. Had it bled, retorqued, changed out most cooling
system parts, but still did not fix the problem. Had the original engine
Swapper pull heads and send back to Rebuilder who said that the heads were
fine and to reinstall. Reinstalled heads, still same problem. I have tried
everything I can think of to fix, but no success. Air enters cooling system
during highway driving. No loss of coolant at all, system pressure tests
fine, and is running at normal temps, fourth expansion tank cap. Seems like
it can only be a mating problem between the heads and block (less likely
since head was remachined during R&R, and problem was EXACTLY the same after
R&R) or, more likely, a hairline crack in a head. My guess is that it only
opens at operating temps. I have paid about $1000 for engine swap, $2400 for
rebuild, $600 for Diagnostics, $1350 for Head R&R, for a total of at least
$5350 for an engine that must be bled every 60 -100 miles.
This is what I intend to propose to the interested parties. I realize they
are small business (like me) who cannot afford to throw money at my van, but
each assured me, prior to engagement of their services, that they warranty
their work.
I would like the Swappper to pull the engine and send it back to the
Rebuilder, and I would like the Rebuilder to put new heads on the motor and
send it back. To shorten the process, I could ask the Rebuilder to just
send me another engine while my old one is on the way back to him. Both of
these businesses will likely tell me that the other guy did it (SODDI
Defense), but I think each of these businesses is potentially liable for
much more that I am asking. I would even be willing to consider paying for
the expenses (aside from the new heads) in this, although I don't feel as
though I should.
Why the Rebuilder should do his work for free:
It seems the most likely cause of this problem is a crack in the head.
Nearly every cooling system part has been changed, yet the problem remains
EXACTLY the same.
Why the Swapper should do the work for free:
When I paid him for the head R&R, he ended up billing me $600 more than
previously agreed, because he felt that the cylinders had to come out . His
quote to me was "I need to do it right, because if there's a problem next
time, it's on me." Of course he did not include a defective head in that
scenario, as that is arguably the responsibility of the part provider.
Questions:
Does this seem fair?
Anybody have a last comment on any other causes of air entering cooling
system?
Thanks for your time,
Peter
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