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Date:         Tue, 9 Apr 2002 00:49:40 -0500
Reply-To:     Jeff Palmer <jpalmer@MTS.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Jeff Palmer <jpalmer@MTS.NET>
Subject:      Re: HELP!!  What is the State of my Title?
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I agree - this is very similar to the procedure I went with when I 'acquired' an abandoned Type III in Ontario. I couldn't register it until I got the Registration/Transfer of Ownership Document from the owner. Luckily, ICBC in Victoria BC (bless them) tracked him down and he mailed them to me, 2 years after first abandoning the car. What luck!

So I'm wondering, what's the difference between a Title and Registration? You can't get a car on the road without either, so for practical purposes what's the diff? What is the purpose of a title anyway?

Jeff (showing my ignorance in these legal-type matters.)

----- Original Message ----- From: "David Marshall" <vanagon@VOLKSWAGEN.ORG> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 11:55 PM Subject: Re: HELP!! What is the State of my Title?

> Oh my - what a complicated system you have. I know this isn't helping your > situation any, but in Canada we do not have vehicle titles. In my glove > compartment is a 'registration' and my 'insurance'. The insurance says that > I have insurance that is valid throughout Canada and the USA and that I am > covered for up to X million dollars for liability ($200,000 is the legal > minimum) and Y deductible for Fire / Theft / Vandalism and Z deductible for > damage that I do to the vehicle. The registration is attached to my > insurance and gets printed off every time I get my insurance renewed. It > has the basic information of; my name, address, vehicle make, model, weight, > colour and VIN number - that's it. > > If I was to buy a vehicle, all I need is the registration and a form from my > insurance company (ICBC - gov't insurance) that is basically a formal > bill-of-sale with my name, drivers licence number, the buyer, their DL > number and the amount the vehicle is sold for. > > If I bought a vehicle from my friend who lives in the same province all I > need is the registration and the official bill of sale, I go to the > insurance place and pay my 7.5% provincial tax on the purchase price, $28 > for the registration fee and that's it. If I want to drive it, I need to > buy insurance. > > If the vehicle comes from out of the province I need a signed bill of sale, > mechanical inspection and a copy of the registration - pay the above fees > and I am done. > > The only thing that I have a title to is my house... > > David Marshall > > Fast Forward Automotive Inc. > 4356 Quesnel Hixon Road > Quesnel BC Canada V2J 6Z3 > > http://www.fastforward.ca mailto:sales@fastforward.ca > Phone: (250) 992 7775 FAX: (250) 992 1160 > > - Vanagon Accessories and Engine Conversions > - Vanagon, Transporter and Iltis Sales and Importation > - European Lighting for most Volkswagen models > > -----Original Message----- > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com]On Behalf > Of Budd Premack > Sent: April 8, 2002 9:35 PM > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > Subject: HELP!! What is the State of my Title? > > > Can anyone direct me to a source to title an 85 Westy, which has SERIOUS > title problems? > > The Background.... > > Last year I obtained an eBay van from a CA dealer. The body was fine, but > it had severe engine problems, so it was towed to MN by my trusty 86 Syncro. > (Slow and steady wins the race.) Sometime (a long time) later it ran fine > after engine surgery. > > The CA dealer directed me to apply for a MN title once the van was > operational in MN. Because a non-functioning vehicle cannot pass the smog > test, a CA dealer cannot sell it to an individual. I arranged for a > transfer via Bill of Sale from the CA dealer to a MN dealer who is a friend. > The plan was for the MN dealer to get a MN title and then transfer it to me. > > The Problem.... > > The van had been junked in CA, resulting in the CA DMV canceling its title. > The CA DMV wrote me a letter indicating this title status. (Want to guess > how easy that was to procure?) Last summer (with the CA DMV letter and > Bills of Sale in hand) my friendly MN dealer was able to obtain MN RV plates > (which expired 2-28- 02) while submitting a request for a MN title. > However, after a wait of several months, MN would not issue a new MN title > as there was obviously still a record of the CA title. (After a canceled > title has been stale for at least 3 years, MN will waive this requirement, > but who wants to wait!) MN indicated that I needed to get the title > reissued by CA, as MN wouldn't issue a title for a vehicle that had (that is > the operative word) a title in any other state.. > > In order to obtain a reissued title, CA stated I needed a CA Junk Receipt > and Bills of Sale from all interested parties in the chain of title. I > already had all the requisite Bills of Sale. (Hey, do you think I am a > complete dummy for buying a van without a title? All who answered "yes" can > commence laughing promptly.) After numerous unsuccessful attempts at > securing the Junk Receipt from the CA dealer, I was able to locate the prior > dealer, who had officially junked the van and then sold it to my dealer. > The "junk" dealer was extremely cooperative and provided me with a copy of > the elusive Junk Receipt. > > Further communication with the Special Field Office of the CA DMV resulted > in their following cooperation in my efforts to revive the CA title: > > 1. Permission was granted to avoid the smog test (as the van was to be only > titled, but not registered, in CA, as the intention was to register it in > MN, which has no smog test). > > 2. Permission was granted to have the brake and light inspection done by an > official state inspection outside of CA. (Naturally, MN has no vehicle > inspection of any sort, so I guess I could go to IA to find an official > state inspector.) > > 3. However (We all knew there was going to be a however, didn't we?), the > regular vehicle inspection could only be done by a CA DMV official or by a > member of the CA Highway Patrol (CHIPS). Unfortunately, they don't make > house calls. (Apparently, the rules for inspection of previously junked > vehicles are strict in CA.) > > The Solution.... > > This saga leads to several interesting choices: > > 1. Transport the van to CA for the vehicle inspection. Of course it can't > be driven there as it has no current license plates. > > 2. Park the van for 2 more years to comply with the MN 3 year rule. > > 3. Drive the van with plates "borrowed" from a junked van of similar > vintage, and possibly attempt to switch all of the serial numbers. (This is > known as the witness protection system.) > > 4. Arrange for an accident, and collect the fair market value from my > insurance company. (Since all of us Listees know how fair and generous > insurance companies typically are in valuing 15 year old Westys, this > technique is a leading candiate if one can omit any ethics issues.) > > 5. Ask the List for help in finding a cooperative venue where the van can > be titled and then re-registered in MN. > > HELP!!!!! HELP!!!!! > > Can anybody hear a voice crying in the governmental bureaucratic wilderness? > > > p.s. For those of you who remember me from my past Listee life, please note > my new email address: bpremack@mn.rr.com > > > > Budd Premack > 86 Syncro (and a host of others) > Minneapolis, MN (Land of Sky-Blue Waters) >


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