Date:         Wed, 15 May 2002 14:10:00 -0500
Reply-To:     "Dan R. Hall" <trilobite@WESTAL.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         "Dan R. Hall" <trilobite@WESTAL.NET>
Subject:      '86 Westy timing conundrum
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Ye Volks,
My '86 Westy Wolfsburg, "Das Boot", has a peculiar problem.  I have about 40,000 miles on a VW of Canada 2.1 liter rebuild.  I've been running it most of those miles with the timing set by ear.  The reason for this is that setting timing per the Bentley with timing light and V-notch results in a van that won't crank.  In order to run smoothly, the timing marks must show up under the strobe at least 2 inches advanced(left) from the crankcase split line, engine @2300 RPM, temp normal, Temp sensor II unplugged, timing light hooked up and reading spark off the #1 cylinder(right side, front/flywheel.)

Engine temp has been fine during the life of this rebuild.  Fuel mileage has been 18-20 mpg.

While doing a spark plug and wire replacement I decided to try and rectify the timing conundrum.  I've scoured the archives and found loads of info but none that really address how/why I have this situation.

So, last night I pulled the distributor, then the distributor drive shaft and re-installed both following the procedures in the Bentley.
--I brought the engine to TDC on cylinder one by turning the belt drive pulley with a wrench while feeling for compression at the    
   cylinder #1 spark plug hole and continuing to turn the engine until the U-notch was aligned with the crankcase halves.
--reinstalled the distributor drive shaft, small side to the water pump and she fell right into place with a slight twist to the right just like Bentley says.
--reinstalled the distributor with the rotor pointing at the small notch in the distributor body, both pointing at roughly 4 o'clock or at the bolt that you loosen to adjust timing.

I was stoked.  I knew this would fix the problem.  How stupid of me.
I started her up and tried to set timing with the strobe light but again had to advance it way to the left to get it to smooth out.
Hmmm.
Back to the archives for consultations.
I then tried to reset the distributor drive shaft as called for in the Haynes manual which differs from the Bentley.  It calls for having the shaft installed pointing towards the front of the engine/12 o'clock roughly rather than over towards 1 o'clock/the stud that holds the distributor down.
Rechecked the timing and the same thing happened as before.
More archive research followed.

I then removed the #1 spark plug and used a steel bicycle spoke to feel the movement of the #1 piston through the hole.
It seemed to be hitting Top Dead Center well before the U-notch for TDC appeared on the pulley.  I cycled the engine on through again this time watching the movement of the spoke as the #1 piston approached TDC.  This time, once the spoke stopped being pushed out by the #1 piston's movement, I marked the belt drive pulley at the crankcase halves' line with Liquid Paper to give a rough idea of where TDC on #1 might be.

I started the engine, hooked up the strobe light and set timing with the new Liquid Paper TDC about a centimeter left of the crankcase split.  The engine now runs about like it has been, the original U-notch and V-notch on the pulley are two inches to the left.


Can anybody tell me what is going on here?
Are my methods for determining TDC unsound?

The mechanic that installed this engine turned out to be less than reputable.  I won't go into all the bits and pieces that were "borrowed"  from my van while he had it in his lot.   I had to troubleshoot a lot of problems after the install, tighten bolts all over the place, etc.

Could he have installed the wrong drive pulley? 

The one I have on it has the V-notch about 5 millimeters to the right of the TDC U-notch.

Is there a way to determine true TDC from spying the flywheel through the hole on the top/front of engine?
Could he have installed the flywheel wrong as well?
How else can I determine true TDC for #1?

Can true and accurate timing be set with some high-tech gizmo and not with the timing marks?

thanks,
Dan Hall