Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 16:03:22 -0500
Reply-To: Chris Mills <scmills@TNTECH.EDU>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Chris Mills <scmills@TNTECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Just cause
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b90971c6b2ad@[192.168.99.102]>
Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
>Why the *hell* would you consent to a voluntary search? The US
>constitution guarantees freedom from search where there is no just
>cause (something you're doing that raises their suspicions) to do so.
>(Eating a sandwich, and diagnosing a clutch problem, last time I
>looked, wasn't a suspicious behavior.) Your *guaranteed* freedoms as
>a US citizen does not require surrender of your freedom from
>unreasonable search. (Where's the logic in that?)
As a former NAVY MP, Police dispatcher, and University Security Guard I
have been on both sides of the driver's door.
I'm not saying it is right but I assure you that more often than not if you
launch into a long speech with them about the legality of the search you
accomplish several notable things: you piss them off , they will not forget
you if you take them to court, they will drag their heals, they will search
twice as hard, and like one lister mentioned - might be inclined to put you
in cuffs during the search (if you try to "help" them).
They kicker of the law (AS I UNDERSTAND IT) is that if you refuse they will
hold you and your vehicle until they either call in a drug dog to discover
some sort of probable cause or until they get a warrant. Catch-22.
Just like I mentioned - I didn't say it was right, just the way things work
right now. For us it is a lose-lose situation.
So blame the hippies for the creation of the stereotype way back when and
the establishment for making this issue such a big one. So many other
things they could concentrate on like Meth-labs.
>These morons were practicing "profiling", the practice of legal
>prejudice. Don't make this kind of behavior acceptable. Politely and
>*firmly* decline the request. Every time. If they have just cause,
>they'll tell you so. If they have no just cause, they ask. Say "No".
It doesn't really matter if profiling is legal or not. It is a fact of
life, part of human nature. Even if we pass 100 laws that says police can't
profile - each officer has his life experience, his education, and what he
has learned from his friends to use every time he sizes up a person. He is
going to size every person up that he meets. In effect - that profiling is
just a legal term for sizing a person up - but with some sort of
statistical analysis to back it up. It does not take anything so fancy to
be part of a stereotype.
From my own experience the neat and tidy folks are GENERALLY not a
problem. Almost all of the people I've filed paperwork on were in need of
some person hygiene, needed some laundry done, or drove a rough looking
car. That certainly puts most "hippies" on the wrong side of the list and
if I was the type of person that did not know a Hippie bus from a Vanagon
or did not care - all VW's were the same to me - that would include alot
more people in that pool. You can't be a dirtbag and expect the same
treatment as my tidy little grandmother. Just doesn't happen.
>To consent to these searches makes it more and more likely that the
>others of us who don't consider owning a Vanagon just cause will be
>seen as "easy" targets by these goons.
Some cops are goons, some are just doing a job. Most of them are going to
develop a bad attitude with you if you treat them like the enemy. People
become police officers for alot of different reasons (just like any other
profession) - some are egomaniacs, some are goons, and some are folks just
bringing home the bacon.
How you deal with them has a very important correlation with how they are
going to deal with you. If you are rude, stubborn, or in their face they
will most likely be verbally polite (because most departments require that)
but very forceful in all other ways. The more you waste their time the more
they will waste your time.
>Freedom belongs only to those who choose to exercise them. The more
>you cave into fear, the fewer freedoms we all will have.
It's going to take more than being difficult when you get stopped. In fact
when you get stopped is not going to be the opportunity you are looking for.
As I have noted hundred's of times in my 31 years, this complaining is to
the people (us and the police officers) who can't or won't do anything
about it. Ya can't complain about gas prices to the guy in the convenience
store and expect any changes.
If you are really unhappy about this - call your local politicians, your
local Sheriff, your mayor, or the ACLU (not my favorite people). Gripping
at each other changes nothing.
Play it cool and hope for the best. Keep your weed and whatever else at
home b/c I don't partake and don't want to play the price for the
stereotype somebody else help reinforce.
Frankly I don't care what folks do with their time on this planet. If you
want to smoke or toke or share your bed with somebody the local preacher
would preach about - I don't care. The only time I care is when I've got to
share the road with folks like this or deal with these folks' chaos (11 PM,
110 decibel, drunken arrival at the campground). These are the folks I am
happy to see the local peace officer take with him. I figure if most people
would keep their habits low key and cool, the rest of the world would never
know anything about it. The rules are written for people who can't keep it
cool. If you can break the rules quietly and not hurt anyone else - how
would the local law ever know to come after you?
Keep it between the lines and the rubber side down.
Chris Mills in TN
