Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 22:59:56 -0700
Reply-To: DaveC <voicebox@DNAI.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: DaveC <voicebox@DNAI.COM>
Subject: Re: Just cause
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020516140950.0222ab30@gemini.tntech.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
>I'm not saying it is right but I assure you that more often than not if you
>launch into a long speech with them about the legality of the search you
>accomplish several notable things: you piss them off , they will not forget
>you if you take them to court, they will drag their heals, they will search
>twice as hard, and like one lister mentioned - might be inclined to put you
>in cuffs during the search (if you try to "help" them).
No long dissertation, no speeches. "No." If they go and search
anyway, they are doing so illegally. If they *really* are suspicious
of my behavior, well I guess they can get the dog, etc.
>They kicker of the law (AS I UNDERSTAND IT) is that if you refuse they will
>hold you and your vehicle until they either call in a drug dog to discover
>some sort of probable cause or until they get a warrant. Catch-22.
That's if they have suspicion (probable cause). Declining politely IS
NOT SUSPICIOUS OR PROBABLE CAUSE.
These guys are practicing lazy law enforcement. If they perform
enough "voluntary" searches, they're sure to eventually find
something. *Real* cops use their heads, eyes, and THE LAW to catch
criminals.
>How you deal with them has a very important correlation with how they are
>going to deal with you. If you are rude, stubborn, or in their face they
>will most likely be verbally polite (because most departments require that)
>but very forceful in all other ways. The more you waste their time the more
>they will waste your time.
"No" is not rude or stubborn. It's just THE LAW.
>>Freedom belongs only to those who choose to exercise them. The more
>>you cave into fear, the fewer freedoms we all will have.
>
>It's going to take more than being difficult when you get stopped. In fact
>when you get stopped is not going to be the opportunity you are looking for.
>
>As I have noted hundred's of times in my 31 years, this complaining is to
>the people (us and the police officers) who can't or won't do anything
>about it. Ya can't complain about gas prices to the guy in the convenience
>store and expect any changes.
You can if he's charging 10 percent above the price posted in 3 foot
high numbers outside the window. You pay the posted price, no more.
It's the LAW.
>Frankly I don't care what folks do with their time on this planet. If you
>want to smoke or toke or share your bed with somebody the local preacher
>would preach about - I don't care. The only time I care is when I've got to
>share the road with folks like this or deal with these folks' chaos (11 PM,
>110 decibel, drunken arrival at the campground). These are the folks I am
>happy to see the local peace officer take with him. I figure if most people
>would keep their habits low key and cool, the rest of the world would never
>know anything about it. The rules are written for people who can't keep it
>cool. If you can break the rules quietly and not hurt anyone else - how
>would the local law ever know to come after you?
If an officer smells or sees something in my car (I don't partake,
either), then there is probable cause. He has every right to get the
dogs and/or the warrant. If he doesn't, he's wasting my time and his.
And I will politely say "No" if asked to search. I doubt it will get
me in any trouble. He will either say "Have a nice day" or say
nothing and search anyway. Either way is OK with me. I just won't
roll over on the constitution. If he's going to search anyway, make
him do it without a clear conscience.
Dave
(Why does the law apply only to those without a badge?)
--
Dave Carpenter
Whatever you wish for me,
May you have twice as much.
"Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think
we're not. In either case the idea is quite staggering." -- Arthur C.
Clarke
