Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 13:34:58 -0700
Reply-To: Karl Wolz <wolzphoto@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Karl Wolz <wolzphoto@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: Hung in the middle - Bumper drawings
Bill, Bill, Bill, what am I going to do with you. I try to impart a bit of
wisdom, and you disagree with me. I'm hurt (no - not really).
You say, "if you're hit hard enough to damage your
> frame while your van wears a big tube bumper, it's certainly going to
> have damaged your frame with the stock bumper.", but that isn't really my
point.
First, I'm not convinced that the stock bumper doesn't absorb much. I've
been hit a couple times, and the only damage was to the bumper, the bumper
mounts, and the painted valance beneath the bumper, but I won't argue that
it isn't pretty weak.
There's a range of possible situations in which your bumper is going to be
asked to absorb a bit of energy. The real minor stuff doesn't much matter -
you're gonna replace the bumper (or not) and that's it. The real major
stuff doesn't much matter, either, and neither bumper is going to make much
differences to whether you walk away or not.
It's the stuff in between that gets interesting, and this is where the King
Kong of bumpers becomes questionable. I believe there is a portion of that
range in which the stock bumper will crumple, along with the bumper mounts,
and you will receive some body damage but no frame damage (for argument's
sake, let's call it 15 - 30 mph), where Kong is going to get driven six or
eight inches into the van. It will still need to be replaced, as well as
the mounts and the body panels, but the frame members to which the mounts
are attached will be pretty well mangled, too.
The real issue at this point becomes, what will your insurance adjuster say
about the liability you're attracted to yourself by using a non-standard
bumper (safety device). You, with your forty-seven German engineering
degrees and your corporate deep pockets decided that you really were smarter
than that puny little Deutsch car maker, which almost certainly never did
any research on the trashy little pieces of chrome they put on their
transport version of the Bug. What's going to happen when you're grilled by
the adjuster as to where your head was at on this decision?
Now, to carry this argument one step farther, what happens when a passenger
in your van is seriously injured and his attorney gets wind of your
fancy-assed little modifications? Keep in mind that it doesn't really
matter whether the injuries were caused by your bumpers or not; what matter
is that you cannot afford to defend yourself against the argument that the
bumpers COULD HAVE been a factor in the injuries.
Am I paranoid? No. Am I overcautious? Maybe. Do I follow my own advice?
Not usually. But; the advice is there, and it IS sound.
Karl
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Kasper" <dragonlist@IPMTS.UCSC.EDU>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: Hung in the middle - Bumper drawings
> karl, by the same argument ("the energy of a collision has to be
> dissipated somewhere"), using the stock bumper will get you in just
> about as much, if not more trouble. wasn't there a whole discussion
> about this a couple weeks ago? if you're hit hard enough to damage your
> frame while your van wears a big tube bumper, it's certainly going to
> have damaged your frame with the stock bumper. the stock bumper *most
> likely* won't cannibalize the colliding vehicle's crush zones as well as
> a tube bumper (overall size/mass of the bumper must make it one hell of
> a plow) would. and, given the trans-highway animalian protection factor
> of the stock bumper is, shall we say, minimal, a tube bumper (with the
> proper angle to the upper protector bar) just might keep you from
> getting your van's front BenT.
>
> anyone have any experience crashing into moving objects (animate or
> inanimate) wearing one of those big bumpers? what was the result?
>
> bill
> '87 syncro westfalia
> skeptical, but interested.
>
> On Friday, May 24, 2002, at 09:05 , Karl Wolz wrote:
>
> > Phil,
> >
> > Think beyond your scenario.
> >
> > If the bumper is built hell-for-stout, and the energy of a collision
> > has to
> > be dissipated somewhere (rules of physics, here), to where will that
> > energy
> > be transferred?
> >
> > What is your insurance company going to say about the damage to the
> > frame of
> > the van (to say nothing injuries to the occupants), when the damage was
> > arguably caused by your retrofitment of a non-standard safety device?
> >
> > That's a can-o'-worms that I wouldn't want to open
> >
> > (Aargh, worms!!!)
> >
> > Karl Wolz
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Phil S." <napszeerf@YAHOO.COM>
> > To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> > Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 8:56 AM
> > Subject: Re: Hung in the middle - Bumper drawings
> >
> >
> >> Dont forget the shipping $$ for those monsters.
> >> My biggest problem with these is that what if a car
> >> hits this bumper, will the insurance agree to pay $850
> >> to replace this non OEM-bumper?
> >>
> >> Maybe someone could make an extra bull bar bumper
> >> mounted in front of the Volks Cafe bumper in order to
> >> protect it AND the Vanagon:)
> >>
> >> Phil
> >>
> >>
> >> --- il cikaspers <cikasper@MAIL.CRUZIO.COM> wrote:
> >>> maybe in texas, but in santa cruz the pipe they're
> >>> using for the front and
> >>> rears costs about $400 for all of it. unless i've
> >>> been looking at
> >>> something like stainless, which is more like $1600
> >>> for all of it. the
> >>> welding and bending can certainly come to $200, and
> >>> powdercoating another
> >>> $200. that's damn close to $850.
> >>>
> >>> yes, i know peter, yes i like volkscafe. unless he
> >>> has lied to me (i
> >>> highly doubt that) they're really not making much on
> >>> the things. now, the
> >>> guy that sells them to vc might be ripping them off,
> >>> i don't know. i seem
> >>> to remember at least one other listee who looked
> >>> into having these style
> >>> bumpers made up, and he was in the $600 range for
> >>> the pair, mounted.
> >>>
> >>> and stan, if you can get me pipe to that schedule, 4
> >>> 8' pieces and one 4'
> >>> piece, i'll send you $150 for shipping, and my
> >>> address...
> >>>
> >>> bill
> >>>
> >>>> Sorry guys I can't find the drawing for the rear
> >>> bumpers Mick Kabler has
> >>>> them for sure ...... I'll explore.
> >>>> I'll post them to my website so everybody can get
> >>> them.
> >>>> I didn't mean to rant about the price these guys
> >>> were charging for their
> >>>> bumpers but there is only about $30.00 in materials
> >>> (other than the
> >>>> powder coat) just a few minor bends and really just
> >>> dirt simple
> >>>> construction, the pipe ends have freeze plugs
> >>> welded on them for caps.
> >>>> Try to remember this term "Obscene Profit" I may
> >>> use it again if I get to
> >>>> raving.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Stan Wilder
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> ________________________________________________________________
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> >>
> >> __________________________________________________
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> >
>
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