Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 00:03:28 -0400
Reply-To: Myron Lind <mdlind@RICA.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Myron Lind <mdlind@RICA.NET>
Subject: Re: [FIX] Sound deadening with B-Quiet products?
In-Reply-To: <OE12FaukyCKDkb9pPFR0000def8@hotmail.com>
Hi Brent and sound deadeners
Short answer. Get brown bread and JC Whitney NASA insulation.
Long answer--read on.
I emailed b-quiet and they recommended brown bread with Lcomp. They said
that the brown bread is the general dampening (this is different than sound
proofing) but the Lcomp (L because it is lead based) could be used over the
top for increased soundproofing. The extreme does not come with adhesive and
you provide the adhesive to glue it over the brown bread. I got some of
both.
Here is what I have concluded. I have not finished and have not driven the
van. These are my experiences as the project is half completed.
The brown bread (similar to the dynamat original, or any of the other
asphalt type dampeners) does NOT really STOP SOUND. It stops VIBRATION. Big
difference. I got great results by putting it in the large flat areas for
the front doors, on top of the roof (I pulled the luggage carrier off) and
inside the roof of the driver/passenger area. Also good results from the
large flat area under the windshield but above the grill, side panels and
sliding door. Tap on the panel before you put it in and then after. The
sound changes dramatically. But, sound still transmits through fairly
easily. Or, when you knock or tap on the panel, (door, roof, whatever) the
sound is still a "knock" but the "tinny" sound and resonance is gone. So,
after I have put brown bread over many of the curved and small flat areas of
the van, I am not so sure it is necessary there. I think I should have used
the NASA stuff. One thing about brown bread is that it has a reflective foil
on it which will reflect radiant heat (like from your body--hold some tin
foil up close to your face for a quick demonstration) and so you are doing a
bit of thermal insulation as well. Radiant barrier reflects head waves, but
does not do much as a convective insulation or doesn't stop the transmission
of heat from taking place. Maybe someone can help me out here,-- aluminum
carries heat quite nicely, but at the same time reflects radiant heat quite
well. Two different types of heat transmission here. One more thing about
the foil is that it will cut you very easily. Wear gloves!!
The Lcomp that I purchased was VERY expensive and the pieces are quit small.
The Lcomp with the lead base will form to the contours of the vehicle better
than the Vcomp which is vinyl based, so says b-quiet. I purchased the NASA
insulation from JC Whitney as well, and feel that it will provide better
thermal insulation and probably not be far off for sound insulation. I have
heard the JC Whitney product referred to as "jute" material. It looks like
lots of types of foam ground up and glued together and has the consistency
similar to carpet padding. I have not installed either of these yet buy plan
to glue the JC insulation face to face so I have foil on the outside and
foil on the inside. Thus I'll get sound insulation and thermal insulation
with inside and outside radiant-reflective barrier. Keeps the hot out in the
summer and the hot in in the winter. I will use the Lcomp around the engine
area for sound proofing since I have it, but having examined it would use
the NASA stuff next time.
So, don't confuse sound "stoppers" (probably the JC Whitney stuff is as good
as any and much much cheaper) with vibration/resonance dampers such as brown
bread. Also, consider wind noise. None of these will do much for wind noise.
Finally, I would agree with Bulley. If you are taking the time and effort to
do it, do it with stuff designed for cars, not houses. Yep, the stuff is
expensive. If something else worked, would all the smart sound proofed cars
have that instead of the expensive stuff?
Hope that helps. I can email you some pictures of the naked van with most of
the brown bread installed. Big project.
Myron Lind
82 Diesel Westy getting mechanical TDI and soundproofing.
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com]On Behalf
Of Brent Christensen
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 5:48 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: [FIX] Sound deadening with B-Quiet products?
OK - I am pulling the door panels off next weekend to re-wire my windows and
side mirrors, and while at it I plan to install some sound deadening
materials. I have spent hours poring over the archives on the subject, as
well as poring over the manufacturers' web sites, and I am TOTALLY confused.
Why do these companies have to make a dozen products each that all sound
like they do the same thing? Grrr....
Can anyone provide definitive advice on which of these products to use in
the door panels, and why:
B-Quiet Extreme
B-Quiet Lite
Brown Bread
Dynamat
B-Quiet Vcomp
B-Quiet Lcomp
For the life of me, I cannot make sense of it all - they all sound the same
(no pun intended). Also, is there one of the products that will replace
the "mat" that is installed under the carpeting in a GL Vanagon? (It looks
to be made of a mixture of felt and cork).
Thanks in advance,
Brent Christensen
