Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:41:23 +0100
Reply-To: Clive Smith <clive.harman-smith@NTLWORLD.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Clive Smith <clive.harman-smith@NTLWORLD.COM>
Subject: Re: Trying Syncro Springs in 2WD
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
David,
Thanks for that - and I thought I was about to be chastised....
My syncro handles great and 35 years of putting 30 odd motors through bends
does give one a good platform to make a judgement - I'm sure you've made
your '84 a bit tighter and more responsive - and a bit different. A vehicle
'up-at-the-front' will rarely 'turn-in' and tends to sway after being
disturbed from a straight-line - one sees heavily overloaded pickups
(non-VW) doing this a lot on our roads requiring constant 'sawing-at-the
wheel' and is a highly dangerous instability for nonk drivers. Slightly
upping rear pressures and lowering fronts can help but is not the remedy.
But how did yours get so up at the front like this?
My younger brother had a 5-speed 1.9 Wasserboxer panelvan which he used in
his carpet fitting business. Loading it up with 4 metre rolls (propped up on
the dash, to allow the tailgate to shut, one of the few light vans to allow
this), heavy rubber underlay, sundries, tools and 3 blokes he'd rarely be
overtaken on 'give and take' A-roads and could truck along twisty B roads
looking over the hedges for oncoming vehicles at alarming cross-country
speeds. He'd also cruise it lightly loaded all day at 90 mph on motorways -
the best vehicle for this job he'd ever had. A bit mad? Yeh!
Our roads are on the whole narrower and twistier and from what I've read on
the list, it does sound like VW set up the suspension somewhat differently -
although I would think the Syncros are much the same, apart from usually
having both diff locks - rare I believe over there and the 2.1 DJ high
compression engine, non-existant over there. It pulls my 15" wheeled wagon
very strongly. Thank goodness my brother didn't have this motor - he'd
probably not be around anymore.
I'm running the following tyres (on 15" Audi alloys) which are quiet and
reasonably good off-road - and cheap (£175 for 4, fitted)
KUMHO (Korea) 195 R15 1005 Powerguard
Happy trucking Dave - you have actually answered a question being posed on a
British VW forum - thanks.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Wilhite" <dnmwilhite@earthlink.net>
To: "Clive Smith" <clive.harman-smith@NTLWORLD.COM>
Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 3:46 AM
Subject: Re: Trying Syncro Springs in 2WD
> Clive,
>
> I thought for a minute there I was going to get a dissertation. Ha...
>
> I did put springs only on the rear. My 84' Westy had a very high front
end
> in comparison to the rear. It was even difficult to see out the back
> window properly due to this condition. Whenever I pulled a trailer it was
> even worse.
>
> My idea to lower the front was to swap springs with one of the newer
models
> because they sit at least one inch lower than my 84'. I think the 84'
> models have the tallest springs of any of the vanagons up front. This
plan
> was originally just to get the van leveled out.
>
> You are correct about the steering and handling. The 'turning-in' is
> quicker is a nice effect due to transfering position and weight. My van
> does not have power steering, so it is a good benefit for me. Oh yeah,
and
> breaking tractions hasn't been a problem ever since I put the Subie motor
> in. I could roast the tires before if wanted to, but that is something to
> think about, since with my tall tires I do have to give it a little more
> gas before letting the clutch out all the way.
>
> The KLR650 is a Kawasaki dual sport motorcycle.
>
> The concern about the shocks is really towards their length, not their
> dampening ability. I'm afraid they may already be too close to their max
> length and that a major 'drop away' situation like a pot hole may pose a
> problem. Once I get my heavier bumper on, I should alleviate this
> situation slightly. If not, I may just buy some Syncro shocks.
>
> By the way, some of this also came about because I like the handling and
my
> ride much more in my Syncro than in my Westy.
>
> I too think that suspension characteristics may be a little different
> Europe to USA. It seems there is always a tendency for European vehicles
> to lean a little more to the handling than the ride. You know us
> Americans, we're all overly fat and want everything as cushy and
couch-like
> as possible. Ha...
>
> Besides, I have a need to 'customize', be different and hopefully improve.
>
> Thanks for the stimulating conversation...
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Clive Smith <clive.harman-smith@NTLWORLD.COM>
> > To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> > Date: 7/10/02 8:17:09 PM
> > Subject: Re: Trying Syncro Springs in 2WD
> >
> > David,
> >
> > Its not clear to start whether you just fitted 2 or 4 springs, but on
> > balance I imagine it was just 2 on the rear.
> > 'I've got loads of ground clearance now as the rear end is now higher
than
> > the front. ' - ah!, reading between the lines it appears that, although
> > unsaid, you are trying to simulate lowering the front - ?
> > 'I enjoy the better handling although I'll have to see about how it does
> > with rough roads, but so far so good.' - whenever you change the
> > roll-centres of the vehicle the handling (and over/understeer) will
> change -
> > quite dramatically. With this (guessed at) combination the vehicle will
> tend
> > to oversteer more, 'turning-in' quicker; this is why dropping the front
> > (slightly) has the same effect, the roll-centres then slope down towards
> the
> > front - watch the rear doesn't break away easier in wet/loose
conditions.
> > 'I plan on making an extra heavy duty rear bumper that will hold my
KLR650
> > ' - what is one of them please, motorbike?
> > ' I just hope my shocks will be up to the task.' - I can't see why you
> > should be concerned particularly about the shocks, as stiffer springs
will
> > reduce overall displacements - and comfort. Stiffening the shocks at the
> > rear will tend to exacerbate the rear-end breaking away - although not
> > something to be too concerned about in a vanagon unless very highly
> powered.
> >
> > Manufacturers make many compromises during vehicle design and setup, the
> > engineers having a very good understanding of the chassis
characteristics
> > and how suspending it will affect ride, steering, handling and
roadholding
> > under a wide range of loading. For this reason, almost any modifications
> > will almost certainly reduce safe and stable behaviour under some of
those
> > loadings. In Germany the TUV are very hot on this aspect, right down to
> > small changes of wheels and tyres - some vehicles are quite tolerant,
> others
> > have been known to be highly sensitive and dangerous with just a small
> > change in tyre aspect ratio.
> >
> > I've been amazed at how well my syncro and T3 transporters steer and
> handle
> > as standard for a 1.5 tonner, making me wonder whether suspension setups
> > varied between the US and Europe, noting the fascination with modifying
> this
> > aspect of the vehicle over there.
> >
> > Clive Smith
> > '88 Syncro Transporter
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David Wilhite" <dnmwilhite@EARTHLINK.NET>
> > To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> > Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 12:52 AM
> > Subject: Trying Syncro Springs in 2WD
> >
> >
> > > I recently purchased some Syncro springs on ebay and have installed
them
> > in
> > > my 84' Westy. The Syncro springs were 1" longer in length than the
> stock
> > > 2WD springs, but about 19mm in diameter versus 17mm for the 2WD.
Before
> > > spring swap, distance from fender to center of wheel was 16 3/4".
After
> > > swap distance from fender to center of wheel is 19 1/8". I've got
loads
> > of
> > > ground clearance now as the rear end is now higher than the front.
I'll
> > > have to ride around some more before I decide whether to keep it this
> way
> > > or not. I enjoy the better handling although I'll have to see about
how
> > it
> > > does with rough roads, but so far so good. I plan on making an extra
> > heavy
> > > duty rear bumper that will hold my KLR650 so the stiffer springs will
be
> > > good for that if I ever get around to it.
> > >
> > > I would rather have dropped the front end to make it level instead of
> > > putting these springs in, but I wasn't able to obtain any shorter
> springs
> > > for the front, so I thought I would try jacking up the rear. I just
> hope
> > > my shocks will be up to the task.
> > >
> > > Later
> > >
> > >
> > > David Wilhite
> > > 86' Syncro GL (For Sale)
> > > 01' KLR 650
> > > 84' Subaruvanagon
>
>
> David Wilhite
> 86' Syncro GL (For Sale)
> 01' KLR 650
> 84' Subaruvanagon
>
>
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