Date:         Thu, 11 Jul 2002 11:10:58 +0100
Reply-To:     Clive Smith <clive.harman-smith@NTLWORLD.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Clive Smith <clive.harman-smith@NTLWORLD.COM>
Subject:      Re: Attention California Vanagonites
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

*** Warning - off topic, not about vanagons directly ***

'..GROSS misrep... and an environmental activist lie'  ?
Oh dear, is there a wasps nest out there, I feel stung quite badly. But what then are the figures, I'm sure these are very round figures and dredged up by those with a point to make. The facts are that the US govt. does pander to the power industry and popular vote at the expense of the environment more than most other advanced economies - witness being the only country to reject the Kyoto protocols, making any significant progress on these issues almost impossible. 
Whilst you may be somewhat insulated from World opinion, take it from me, many 3rd World countries really are getting pissed-off as they feel if the dread scenarios of higher temps and sea-levels do come about - they'll be the ones to suffer. With the after effects of Sepember 11th reverberating around the globe, its perhaps not the time to be icky picky about 25/4 - rather than taking on board the general feeling that gross consumerism and profligate energy use just cannot continue and is a not a divine right. 
For instance, if in the unlikely event China develops its economy and lifestyle to Western levels without taking on-board these issues at all, being recalcitrant (which it seems it is not, already noting serious environmental problems at home) the World would *definitely* be in trouble!!

I think a degree of sensitivity here would be wise, and to ignore concerns, throwing back anyone elses proposals in their face is tantamount to waving a red flag at a bull - not a wise move - when there is burgeoning discontent at the unequal distribution of wealth across the globe - simple facts.

Sorry for all this here, its only indirectly vanagon stuff - but its time to take on board these issues, marshall arguments and maybe be somewhat circumspect and keep heads down - theres a lot of flak flying about out there - and the US seems to be in the firing line. A few compromises could do an awful lot of good and engender goodwill - will they be made?

Clive Smith
Apologies for running an '88 Syncro Transporter (occasionally)

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Sibleyjm@aol.com 
  To: clive.harman-smith@NTLWORLD.COM ; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM 
  Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 3:16 AM
  Subject: Re: Attention California Vanagonites


  In a message dated 7/10/02 6:19:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time, clive.harman-smith@NTLWORLD.COM writes:



    Whilst risking all your wraths from a far and safe distance, it does need
    pointing out that the US with 4% of the Worlds population, produces 25% of
    its carbon pollution.



  this statement is not factual and is a GROSS misrep... and an environmental activist lie.  please quote your source next time for a little credibility....
  thank you, jeff
  syncro and JEEP GRAND CHEROKE (V8) pilot
  O.C. California