Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:23:16 -0500
Reply-To: Harmon Seaver <hseaver@CYBERSHAMANIX.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Harmon Seaver <hseaver@CYBERSHAMANIX.COM>
Subject: Re: Running on Tap Water (was Re: Attention California
Vanagonites)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020717121134.046e4830@pop1.attglobal.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Wed, Jul 17, 2002 at 12:57:31PM -0400, David Beierl wrote:
> Very interesting...
>
> Perhaps you can answer a question that's been bothering me for a long time
> -- what happens to gas that's excess to the instantaneous requrements of
> the engine?
There is none. There must be a vacuum on the engine end to suck the air into
the pyrolysis area of the gasifier. Turn off the engine, the gasifier goes out
and must be relit before you start off again. The gasifier is quite
self-regulating in that respect -- when the engine demands more gas, it has more
vacuum, thus the gasifier creates more gas, let off the throttle, it stops
producing. There's always an "overlap", of course, but the gasifier body is
fairly large compared to the actual burn area so can hold a good bit of gas.
People who use woodgas for their home heating, cooking, or running
"propane" fridges use various devices. Since there is no engine, they use a
compressor to provide the vacuum and to fill old propane tanks, or mil-surplus
weather ballons. Just like natural gas, it's difficult and not efficient to try
to compress woodgas enough to liquefy it like propane, but it can be stored for
cooking, hotwater heater, or other domestic uses. You need to use a bigger jet
than for natural gas, and natural gas, of course, uses a bigger jet than
propane.
>
> And how do folks deal with the rather astounding toxicity of the stuff?
It's not that bad, no worse than natural gas, for instance. It's just that it
doesn't have stinky stuff added to warn you, like natural gas or propane
does. When dealing with any gaseous fuel you have to take precautions, of
course, make sure there are no leaks, etc. A carbon monoxide monitor is cheap
and effective.
And have you ever looked at the dangers of gasoline? The military makes
horrific bombs out of gasoline. Not to mention the serious dangers of just
getting it on your skin.
People had problems back in WWII because they didn't understand the risks,
weren't careful, and also had no CO monitors back then.
> I
> mention in passing
>
> >It must, however, also be understood that use of producer gas vehicles
> >involves certain risks. These have been described in Chapter 2, but it
> >should be mentioned in this context that the experiences in Sweden of a
> >rapid introduction of producer gas vehicles at the beginning of the Second
> >World War were fairly unfavourable. There were several fatalities caused
> >by carbon monoxide poisoning and a marked increase of the frequency of car
> >fires. After enforcement of strict safety regulations, and strenuous
> >efforts to educate drivers, these types of accidents became less frequent.
> >The number of persons annually diagnosed as suffering from "chronic
> >effects" of producer gas poisoning nevertheless increased. In total about
> >10000 persons in Sweden were recorded as cases of chronic poisoning during
> >the period 1941-1945. It should be understood, however, that the symptoms
> >do disappear after a time if a person suffering from poisoning is no
> >longer exposed to the gas. There appears to be no permanent damage, but
> >poisoning is still a problem because of lost working days.
> >
> >It is possible that this experience was a result of the habit of bringing
> >vehicles indoors in the winter to facilitate starting and that the risks
> >may be less in a warm climate, but it appears to be very important to
> >minimize the exposure to gas of drivers, passengers and persons working in
> >garages and service workshops. The least that can be done to avoid similar
> >unfavourable experiences is to follow the safety regulations developed in
> >Sweden for installation of producer gas systems in vehicles. A translation
> >is provided in (23). If vehicle gasifiers are introduced on a large scale
> >without adequate precautions, there is a real possibility of unnecessary
> >human suffering and economic losses. Government control of any producer
> >gas vehicle programme therefore appears to be necessary.
>
> david
>
>
> David Beierl - Providence, RI
>
> http://pws.prserv.net/synergy/Vanagon/
> '84 Westy "Dutiful Passage"
> '85 GL "Poor Relation"
--
Harmon Seaver
CyberShamanix
http://www.cybershamanix.com
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