Date:         Thu, 18 Jul 2002 01:48:42 -0500
Reply-To:     Stan Wilder <wilden1@JUNO.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Stan Wilder <wilden1@JUNO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Running on Tap Water
Comments: To: bmuller@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

In 1962 Oldsmobile had a little F85 with aluminum block V8 Option on some
was a genuine self destruct alcohol water injection system.
I can't say about the fighters but the big 14 cylinder Pratt Whitney
radial bomber engines had a water / alcohol injection they used for fast
gains in altitude (not take offs).
Try to keep in mind that most word war II bombers were expendable and the
number of planes lost was almost un-numbered. (sure somebody feels like
researching it, but not me).
I think that you are close to right  ............... they run better in
dense air; like late at night. If it happens to be humid so what.

Stan Wilder

On Wed, 17 Jul 2002 02:37:17 -0400 "Barry E. Muller"
<bmuller@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU> writes:
> Some WWII fighters (Mustang, Hurricane, Spitfires mebbe)  used water
> injection to temporarily boost performance in extreme situations.
> Obviously
> they were not injecting pure water into the engine - just adding it
> to the
> mix.  But hey, I read this 25 years ago, so don't start asking (me)
> any
> details.  As I recall they could run in this mode for only about 5
> minutes
> or so, before ruining the engine.
>
> bem
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Clive Smith" <clive.harman-smith@NTLWORLD.COM>
> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 5:31 PM
> Subject: Re: Running on Tap Water
>
>
> > 'I have noticed that most internal combustion engines  seem to run
> more
> > smoothly in very wet weather, assuming there are no wiring
> concerns and
> that
> > the engine is fully warmed up, but this could be another issue
> altogether.'
> >
> > So have I, particularly in absolute downpours where the rain
> hitting the
> > gound litterly sucks the temperature down by evaporation and the
> ater is
> not
> > necessarly held as vapour but as fine droplets. Just at this point
> they
> seem
> > to have the ability to radically alter the combustion process, as
> I have a
> > job believing that the whole effect is solely due to reduced inlet
> temps
> and
> > the consequent higher charge mass. Shall we synthesise our
> 'intuitive'
> > experiences here? Simply injecting water into the inlet without
> thinking a
> > lot about exactly simulating the actual parameters that produce
> this
> effect
> > might be too simple.
> >
> > Clive
> > '88 Syncro Transporter
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Various" <AllStuff@HANS-WILLY.MYIP.ORG>
> > To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 7:58 PM
> > Subject: Re: Running on Tap Water
> >
> >
> > > Please let me preface my remarks by saying that I am skeptical to
> the
> > point
> > > of disbelief whenever someone claims to have invented a
> perpetual motion
> > > machine or broken the laws of thermo dynamics...
> > >
> > > A few tens of years ago I remember reading (in NEWSWEEK or
> TIME?) about
> > > someone working on a concept about injecting a small amount of
> water
> > (finely
> > > atomized) into the hot combustion chamber, just after ignition.
> The
> > theory,
> > > as explained, was that the thermal expansion rate of the finely
> atomized
> > > water was greater than the expansion rate of the combustion
> gases,
> mostly
> > > due to the transition from liquid water to gaseous water, and
> therfore
> > gave
> > > an extra kick to the piston for "free". Exeptional gas milage
> was the
> > quest,
> > > the headline giving hope of a 100 mpg future.
> > >
> > > The story continued about the Oil companies' concerns and
> wanting to buy
> > him
> > > out... The concept seemed to me somewhat possible, but I never
> heard
> about
> >
> > > the concept since (maybe the conspiracy really does exist ;~)
> ).
> > >
> > > I say that this seems possible, not knowing much about the
> thermal
> > expansion
> > > curves of water (steam) and gasoline combustion gases.
> > >
> > > I have noticed that most internal combustion engines  seem to
> run more
> > > smoothly in very wet weather, assuming there are no wiring
> concerns and
> > that
> > > the engine is fully warmed up, but this could be another issue
> altogether.
> > >
> > > So let's see where this one goes.
> > >
> > > Alias Fred aka Bleu Schtroumpf
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: David Brodbeck [mailto:gull@CYBERSPACE.ORG]
> > > Sent: 17 juillet, 2002 10:04
> > > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > > Subject: Re: Running on Tap Water
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, 17 Jul 2002, Timothy Crooks wrote:
> > >
> > > > I am no chemist, nor physicist, nor do I claim to be, but it
> has been
> > > > demonstrated to, when I was about 14, by a chemist, that water
> can be
> > used
> > > > to make a fire burn hotter.  He pointed out that there must be
> a fuel
> > > > present, but when water as in the form of a steam, a true dry
> steam,
> the
> > > > caloric output is increased.
> > >
> > > Is it increased by more than the caloric input needed to make
> the steam?
> > >
> > >              _ _
> > >   __ _ _   _| | |  | David M. Brodbeck (N8SRE)
> Ypsilanti,
> MI
> > >  / _` | | | | | |
> +-----------------------------------------------------
> > > | (_| | |_| | | | @ cyberspace.org
> > >  \__, |\__,_|_|_| "Geekdom is fantastic at being AGAINST
> something, and
> > >  |___/             it's hopeless at being FOR something."
> > >                                       -- Andrew Orlowski in The
> Register.
> > >
>

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.