Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 18:41:05 -0500
Reply-To: Stan Wilder <wilden1@JUNO.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Stan Wilder <wilden1@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: Knocking sound
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Cat stuck to the tire?
----------------------------
What I am discovering is that a lot of the BS comments and smart ass of
no value remarks are
NOT coming from the pacific northwest!
Stan Wilder
--------- The below comments were posted to West Westies by Susan
---------------
To all Wet Westians far and wide. This is a blatant editorial. The
views expressed are my own and while I have discussed these topics with
others the responsibility for the opinions expressed here in are my own.
I have waited to write this till I would have daily access to my
computer so as not to throw gas on a fire and turn my back.
WW has been around for about 5 years. I have been a listee from pretty
much the beginning. As the name implies most of the organized and
publicized trips are around the pacific northwest. I believe it was the
original hope that listees would have a camping idea and share it with
the group if others could attend they would join in. If not there would
be a synopsis of the 'event' after so others might know if this was a
good camping spot or not. Since we all had volkswagen campers of some
sort (theoretically) we would also digress to camping equipment fixes
that were not either welcome or dealt with on other lists.
As time went on there has become a core of about 40-60 or so
people/campers that seem to attend on a regular basis and we have become
personal friends as well as camping buddies. I think that has been one
of the best benefits of internet access for me and I wish all lists
could say the same.
As such we have gone 'off topic' more and more because it is a source
to communicateeasily with lots of people you already know and have vw
technical respect for. I think our list has evolved nicely into that
kind of friendly advice forum. So much so that I never got around to
resubscribing to the other so called 'technical' lists. And I don't
even own a vanagon! But it does make sifting messages easy. :-)
As people feel comfortable in a group they allow parts of their
personality to show. We have had sarcasm and tongue in cheek stories.
Usually these can be appreciated and life goes on. Lately (in this
year especially) there have been some occasions where flames have
erupted and things have gotten out of hand, (in my opinion) Stupid
comments are thrown in and somebody jumps on it in a negative way and
the roller coaster takes off. opinion to follow: What I am discovering
is that a lot of the BS comments and smart ass of no value remarks are
NOT coming from the pacific northwest! I am sorry but I don't get it.
If you don't live in the northwest, aren't planning on visiting, aren't
inviting us to camp in your region and providing information on
wonderful locations there in case we are traveling, why do you butt in?
I have discovered that some of these listees are not welcome
contributors on other lists or have reputations for riling the troops
there too.
We have wonderful lurkers out there from all over. When they plan a
trip to the northwest they solicit opinions or try to coordinate an in
person camping opportunity. I believe that is exactly what we are
about. Just this weekend we had the opportunity to welcome Kevin from
Florida whom we wouldn't have met had it not been for the list. We have
had folks from Texas, Virginia, England, California, join our campouts
because of the list.
Because of some of the negative 'talk' on our list I have seen some
departures and backing off of local contributors both in person and with
their comments. I think that is unfortunate and a loss for the rest of
us. Yes, this list's ultimate control is controlled by one person but I
believed that the tone of the list was set by the majority of members.
I was a member of a California group that I watched deteriorate due to
conflict. (in fact it is from those ashes that we formed) I would
really hate to see a separate list have to happen off this list. I have
seen the beginnings of that already. In fact my California trip report
didn't go to a total broadcast just because I didn't want to have to
'trim' what i said to avoid getting stupid comments back. I was sorry
to have to do that. I feel it deprives the quiet people of information.
(obviously since we got a new member who wondered where all the
air-cooled trip reports were!)
I am sure there are people who agree and some who don't care and some
who may even disagree and feel that negative comments contribute to the
thought process. I don't think so unless it is expressed concisely and
articulately and politely. As I am sure some of you can figure out my
opinion expressing is spurred on by my wax dilemma last week and some of
the comments that ensued. 90% of the people responding to me either
offered constructive comments, sympathy or knew me personally enough to
make a smart remark but they did it off list. The fact that the several
disparaging comments were even made whether they were meant for general
consumption or not I do not feel portray characteristics of a good Wet
Westian. It is not polite to rank personally on someone you have never
met. I appreciated the comments I got back after my response and I know
those comments portray the true list personality. Why do they need to
be made off list for fear of list reprisal or not being able to express
our feelings regarding negative comments.
So I will end my commentary and come what may. The short opinion is if
you aren't with the spirit of the community leave or shut up. Let's go
camping and post those trip reports.
Susan>
---------------------------
If you have any comments send them to - susan@cellair.com
